June 18th, 2008 11:40 PM
That is untrue. I am a VCDL member because they are one of the most effective local grassroots pro-2a groups in the nation. VCDL does not push OC over CC - you're thinking of that large contingent of OCDO members that are also VCDL members. Sure, folks OC in VA - some OC exclusively - but I prefer CC over OC 95% of the time. When I OC and I have the option to CC it is due to it being a matter of convenience... i.e. I'm just running out to bring the trash to the dump, or down to the corner for a fill up. For everyday life, OC just doesn't feel right. I OC in restaurants that are licensed for alcohol service, since VA law prohibits CC in those establishments. When I OC in that situation, it's always as discreetly as possible... sitting in a booth with my strong side in, etc.
Originally Posted by kimberland
I have no opinion about the OC movement other than it is always good to have responsible gun owners portraying themselves (and by extension, us) in a positive light. If they choose to do this by legally OCing to make a statement, then so be it. I don't OC to make a point. If I want to expound on the virtues of firearms ownership and carrying for personal defense, then I will do so with words - not an openly carried firearm on my hip.
June 18th, 2008 11:48 PM
Originally Posted by TN_Mike
I used to OC on my bike because I didn't trust me old IWB holster. Then I dealt with the mall security and have only carried openly once since.
I half expected to get thrown out of Starbucks. But in the multiple times that I've carried openly in Starbucks, the only comment I've received from anyone other than acquaintances was "nice grips" from a TRT officer.
The preceding post may contain sarcasm; it's just better that way. However, it is still intended with construction and with the Love of my L-rd Y'shua.
NRA Certified Pistol Instructor, Tennessee Certified Instructor
June 18th, 2008 11:52 PM
Originally Posted by TN_Mike
I've not seen OC much here in Middle Tennessee; it doesn't seem to be as common as in East or West Tennessee. I could be mistaken, however.
Originally Posted by Agave
If the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.--Samuel Adams as Candidus, Boston Gazette 20 Jan. 1772
NRA Benefactor Life
Tennessee Firearms Association Life
June 18th, 2008 11:59 PM
Interesting topic, but this is a defensive concealed carry forum. This should be moved to OCDO.
Originally Posted by Hawker
June 19th, 2008 12:29 AM
I agree that open carry makes you a target. BGs pay attention more than you think. A compact will be spotted just as easily as a full size. I want the element of surprise on my side should I need to take action.
On the flip side, if EVERYONE OC than BGs would be less likely to try to rob people in public locations. BG walks into a gas station with his little Larcin 380 with the intention of robbing it when he sees 5 or 6 people in various locations picking up items, all with handguns in plain sight. He may just leave that little Larcin in his waisteband and pay for a pack of Newports.
Police Defensive Tactics, Firearms, Carbine Rifle and Taser Instructor
NRA Life Member
It is better to have your gun and not need it, than to need it and not have it!
You cannot choose the conditions for a gunfight, so train in all conditions!
June 19th, 2008 12:48 AM
I'm glad this discussion has stayed open long enough for some people to get some good information posted.
I attempted to start a topic on the subject and it was immediately closed.
I apologize to the moderators as I did not realize it was such a hot topic and I totally understand why they had to close it.
This thread answered all my questions though and I have decided open carry is not for me (except at the range).
June 19th, 2008 01:19 AM
Yes, it is true that we often close "open carry" threads on DefensiveCarry.com.
That has led some folks on OpenCarry.org to jump to the somewhat false conclusion that we are anti open carry and that we harbor some sort of a personal grudge against "open carry" people due solely to their preferred mode of carry. That is untrue.
The reason many open carry threads get closed is due to forum rules violations where strongly opinionated members cannot resist taking stabs at one another. The threads turn nasty and we do not allow nasty, baiting, antagonistic threads to continue here for very long.
Naturally a great majority of our members ARE strongly opinionated concerning open carry and their personal perceived benefits of "concealed carry" over "open carry"....BECAUSE...BECAUSE...we are a forum primarily dedicated to Legal Concealed Firearm carry.
We are not an all encompassing general firearm site.
We originated and got our beginnings as a concealed carry site and we still are.
It's right up on top of every forum page in the header and also mentioned more than once on the DC forum rules page that every member agrees to when they click "I Agree" in order to join here.
Some members over at OCDO were former members of Defensive Carry.
They went over there due to perceived injustices here on DC because they were constantly posting Open Carry topics and those Open Carry topics and posts ended up in flames and were subsequently closed (for that reason) and that bent them out of shape and they left.
And that was fine with us as they found a site better suited to what they wanted to talk about and discuss.
If we were a BASEBALL site - dedicated to BASEBALL and people started jumping on and posting Football and Hockey scores and wanted to debate the merits and finer points of Soccer....and how they felt that Soccer was a superior sport than BASEBALL - they #1 would not be too popular on our BASEBALL site...for obvious reasons. And...#2 they would not be very happy on a BASEBALL forum and they would not be making the true blue dedicated baseball fans on our site too very happy by hijacking BASEBALL threads with Soccer posts.
Baseball, Hockey, and Soccer ARE all sports but they are not identical sports and Golf is not Baseball even though they basically both have a ball in common and a stick.
That is what happened here and it was causing multitudes of moderator headaches with our moderators having to constantly babysit inflammatory and heated and mean spirited threads.
SO................a decision was then made that we would declare a moratorium on Open Carry threads.
BECAUSE of what they were inevitably and constantly turning into...aka flame fests.
SO......then when we just started automatically closing Open Carry threads BECAUSE of what they were constantly turning into...some Open Carry people started screaming:
LOOK! They won't even allow Open Carry to be MENTIONED on DefensiveCarry.com!
YOU CAN'T EVEN TALK ABOUT IT OVER THERE!
MENTION OPEN CARRY OVER THERE AND YOU'LL GET BANNED!
Nope Sorry...with some of you it was your ignorant rants and screaming at the moderators in Private Mail that got you banned since we never put up with that.
Or it was your follow-up cussing posts publicly blasting the moderators for stepping on your 1st Amendment Rights that got you banned.
Not the fact that you mentioned Open Carry.
There was also one Open Carry VS LEO thread that got totally out of control and had to be closed with the result of some very hard feelings on the part of some open carry supporters. The thread had become too political and too anti Law Enforcement and far too idiosyncratic to one specific scenario with many members turning into instant Internet Lawyers and offering up bogus legal advice. We were forced to close it and end the discussion because it had turned into what amounted to a back and forth hate thread that was going nowhere and just causing serious ill feelings among members who ended up doing nothing but trading insults.
That is not what we are about here.
We are an educational Concealed Carry forum.
And that is why (to this day) we only allow them on a conditional basis.
NOT because we hate OCDO...but, because we hate threads that require constant moderation and mediation.
We do not permit members to attack and verbally abuse one another.
and finally because we mainly are a Concealed Carry forum.
Additionally...we have no problem with suggesting that our members shoot on over to OCDO to discuss Open Carry questions and issues.
Many people are members of multitudes of many firearm forums and in one click you can be anywhere on the Internet.
So anybody with a computer and an Internet connection is free to go anywhere on the web and then come back here 50 times a day - if that is what they want to do. No Problem.
Also some people that posted Open Carry posts that ended up being disruptive and Off Topic to concealed carry threads felt that they were being unfairly treated and that we were favoring the Concealed Carry members.
Guess what? YES...that's TRUE - we were favoring our concealed carry posters BECAUSE our concealed carry members were right here where they were supposed to be...AKA on our CONCEALED CARRY forum.
Just understand that we are FIRST and Foremost a Concealed Carry firearm forum and that EVERYTHING ELSE (not just open carry) is secondary to our primary intended focus and is potentially OFF TOPIC at the sole discretion of our forum moderators.
That Be Just The Way It Is. And anybody that doesn't like it can find another house on the Internet - one that does not belong to Bumper...and they can go play in that house. No hard Feelings.
I hope this helps to put it all into perspective.
Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ
June 19th, 2008 01:58 AM
I have seen several people around DeKalb OC
I have yet to muster up the courage to OC in DeKalb county, Metro Atlanta, but this place is not gun friendly and with the crime rate here with stressed out law enforcement, I feel it's more of a risk.
I have seen a few people OC around here from time to time, some of them looked like off duty cops (though I hear the PDs have a policy of no OC when off duty, so I don't know). With all the around and the possibility of being harrased by LEOs, OC won't be my option though it's perfectly legal here.
Sig P220R/Sig P239 (9mm)/ S&W 640/ Ruger Single Six Hunter (.22LR/Mag)/ CZ 452 Varmint .22LR/ Lee Enfield No4 MK2 sporterized dated 1959/ Mosin Nagant M90-30 dated 1942/
June 19th, 2008 03:08 AM
I carry concealed about 99% of the time. Here in Utah it is legal to OC. But I do not fill comfortable doing it. A lot of the guys that do get hassled by the LEO. I like the idea of no one knowing what I am doing. Those that do OC I say more power to them.
John Steinbeck: Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he's too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
June 19th, 2008 03:29 AM
I'm an active member on both Defensive Carry and Opencarry.org. I support both methods of carry, and don't really care how one carries. Just don't try and tell me what method I should use.
Open carry is indeed a growing movement, and is often frowned upon by law enforcement and the general public.
OCDO is a great site to discuss the open carrying of firearms.
USMC rule # 23 of gunfighting: Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
I am the God fearing, gun toting, flag waving conservative you were warned about!
June 19th, 2008 04:54 AM
QK, I just wanted to give ya a big 'thanks' for posting that. I held the impression that DC was anti-OC for a long time but that laid out the reality pretty well. Obviously I like this place too much to leave and never figured it was worth fussing about. Besides, if it was an OC forum, it'd be called DefensiveOpenCarry.Com or something like that. haha All valid reasons, sir.
I'm torn on the topic personally. I think there is some value to it because it reminds people of their 2nd Amendment rights. Its also nice to not have to worry about it. ESPECIALLY when it comes to things like hiking. Thigh holsters never seemed to have much practical use to me for a civilian until I began backpacking.
On the other hand... Those who normally OC, like police officers, are trained in weapon retention and how to fight for their gun. The average citizen is not. It also screams 'shoot me first' - but thats assuming said thug bothers to look around before he commits. OC makes people nervous that aren't used to guns and can thus cause unintended problems...
It seems like I'd be more against it but both have their merits in given situations. The option to do it here in AZ is really nice.
The Gunsite Blog
ITFT / Quick Kill Review
"It is enough to note, as we have observed, that the American people have considered the handgun to be the quintessential self-defense weapon." - Justice Scalia, SCOTUS - DC v Heller - 26 JUN 2008
June 19th, 2008 06:56 AM
i think OC has its place, just as CC does. i've been OCing more lately, since i've grown more comfortable with it. it's definitely easier during the hot summer months here in PA; i don't know about you, but i like to wear as little as possible when it's 90+ degrees outside! of course, if i'm going to chuck e. cheese or toys'r'us, i'd rather CC, just so i don't scare the kids (or their moms). for the most part i've had no problems in my town OCing. outside of my town, tho, there have been issues with those who choose to OC.
June 19th, 2008 08:23 AM
I really prefer concealed carry. It's just too inviting for the bad guy in too many places to carry openly. I've opened carry up here, but this is kind of like the boondocks.
Les Baer 45
N.R.A. Patron Life Member
June 19th, 2008 08:48 AM
I've never heard of a single incidence of this ever happening. This seems to be the emotional response of many against OC. I would venture to guess that a BG seeing a guy with a gun has thwarted many violent acts before they even started. Much more than the armed good guy is "targeted". Criminals don't want resistance or to have to change their game plan. They want to get in and get out as quick as possible, mostly.
Originally Posted by StevePVB
It is an emotional issue in many ways, however.
A good article about it over at THR.
I don't OC for many reasons. But I feel that more people see guns being carried by normal Joes, they will get more comfortable and think about their own SD.
Speak softly, and carry a big stick.
June 19th, 2008 09:09 AM
Open Carry - What do I think?
I really don't see this as opening up a debate as there is really nothing to debate about it. I think it should be a personal decision but an option everywhere concealed carry is legal. I like freedom and the freedoms we once enjoyed here in the good old USA. Wearing my seatbelt should also be a personal decision---I don't wear mine to obey the law--just because it makes sense for me to wear it--it should still be an individual's decision. Same with motorcycle helmets--watch the gory videos and whatever, but it should still be a personal decision. Open carry may open doors to bad experiences---be prepared-see what others have done in their personal situations pertaining to the issues. It's always good to have options, and everyone can at least have their own opinions about it. If open carry became legal here in my state today, I'd probably be doing it tomorrow and until I ran into a bad experience. If I did start carrying openly, I'd also feel the need to carry a concealed backup. I think I'll carry the P220 around the farm today in my OWB speed scabbard and get ready for the day open carry becomes legal here.
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