Open Carry - What do you think? - Page 4

Open Carry - What do you think?

This is a discussion on Open Carry - What do you think? within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by JD I'm not faulting your argument, just the logic backing it up, you stated that the targeted first thing is an emotional ...

Page 4 of 9 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 123

Thread: Open Carry - What do you think?

  1. #46
    Senior Member Array youngda9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Fort Wayne, IN
    Posts
    746
    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    I'm not faulting your argument, just the logic backing it up, you stated that the targeted first thing is an emotional response so logically, dispel that it CAN'T happen, the fact that it hasn't happened yet, does not mean that it can't happen.

    See where I'm going with this?

    Emotionally, I agree with you. Logically, there isn't enough data to come up with a factual answer.
    "the fact that it hasn't happened yet, does not mean that it can't happen." correct...but the most important part of your statement is "the fact that it hasn't happened" :)

    Yes I know where you're going with this. No hard "facts"...but logically I don't think it can be dispelled. But no you can't "prove it" with hard statistics....gotcha.

    You're coming around JD :)

    Good little joust there JD
    Speak softly, and carry a big stick.


  2. #47
    Ex Member Array jahwarrior72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    the raggedy edge
    Posts
    1,438
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    I'd add that sometimes the sight of a OC (think Virginia's required OC in places with ABC on-premise, here) can create a hostile response.
    i'll second that....unfortunately, the hostile response is usually from anyone who isn't armed.

  3. #48
    VIP Member
    Array ppkheat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    4,172
    I'm for both OC and CC, and I think that each has its place. The sheep public is real uncomfortable seeing OC, but they need to see it and begin to get used to it.

    Currently, good decisions should be made now on individual basis when and where to OC or CC. Wise choices during this time ultimately helps our cause. Poor choices may hurt it.

    BTW, I saw on tv recently that essentially the gunfight at OK Corral was basically about OC vs CC.

    Staff and members- Thanks for letting this thread run, it seems a good tribute to the moderators and members for a lengthy discussion like this to continue w/o flaming (so far).
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

  4. #49
    Member Array 500Mag's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    West Chester, PA
    Posts
    418
    We all know the schools of thought on the element of surprise vs. the deterent factor, etc, etc. The thing is, I've never read hard evidence either way supporting either school of thought. When was the last time you read "criminal targets guy OC'ing"?

    I do believe people should be able to choose for themselves. To each his own.
    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

  5. #50
    Senior Member Array tankdriver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Memphis, TN
    Posts
    656
    As stated above, TN is a Open Carry State. I do not do it. I do not want a BG walking up to me to rob me, see I'm armed and know he will have to kill me before I have a chance to do anything to him. I want the fact I'm armed come as a complete suprise to him when I pull it.

    I do like the fact that since it is open carry, I do not have to worry about printing, or the butt showing.
    1942 M3 Autocar Half-track...M3A1 Diamond T Half-track...57mm Anti-Tank Cannon

    NRA Endowment Member...President West TN Military Vehicle Collectors...MVPA Member

  6. #51
    Member Array 500Mag's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    West Chester, PA
    Posts
    418
    Quote Originally Posted by tankdriver View Post
    I do not want a BG walking up to me to rob me, see I'm armed and know he will have to kill me before I have a chance to do anything to him. I want the fact I'm armed come as a complete suprise to him when I pull it.
    While nothing is 100% avoidable/preventable proper situational awareness should eliminate this fear.
    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

  7. #52
    Ex Member Array TacticalCompact's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    317
    I personally believe that a gun openly displayed would probably circumvent most occassions where you could use the "element of surprise" to your advantage. The theme of many threads here at DC.com involves restraint, and avoiding any place, situation, or confrontation that may force you to draw your weapon. If carrying openly would deter a criminal from selecting you as a victim, wouldn't that then solve all the other issues related to avoidance?

    I thought I'd add some reference from another thread that I though was helpful to this discussion. It involves fanny packs. Fanny packs, for all intents and purposes, can be considered almost open carry. Read:

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...aming-gun.html


    I asked them each why they thought I was carrying a gun, and each said ..... man carrying a fanny pack in Texas? It has to be a gun. I went into my alter ego that I use frequently during work hours and we fast talked while they worked about the "training" they received in prison, and due to the high volume of concealed carry permits in Texas, a subject they discussed frequently was how to spot weapons on people to avoid them as the risk is to high. (NOTE: The all three said the second most identifiable sign is a photographer vest...something even professional photographers in Texas don't wear).
    Then again, maybe we should all wear fanny-packs and photographer's vests, while keeping our guns IWB @ 4:00 or in a smart-carry hahaha.

  8. #53
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    1,235
    I am not against OC but when I venture over to OCDO this picture comes to mind with the OC logs and plans to OC at a certain store this week end. Maybe if so many didn't talk about it like it was a winning something each time they walked out the door.
    Attached Images

  9. #54
    VIP Member Array deadeye72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Central Mississippi
    Posts
    4,283
    Quote Originally Posted by FN1910 View Post
    I am not against OC but when I venture over to OCDO this picture comes to mind with the OC logs and plans to OC at a certain store this week end. Maybe if so many didn't talk about it like it was a winning something each time they walked out the door.
    O.K. That picture is funny, I don't care who you are.
    Glock 27
    BENELLI NOVA

  10. #55
    BAC
    BAC is offline
    VIP Member Array BAC's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    2,292
    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalCompact View Post
    Then again, maybe we should all wear fanny-packs and photographer's vests, while keeping our guns IWB @ 4:00 or in a smart-carry hahaha.
    Word!


    -B

  11. #56
    Senior Member Array CR2008's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    660
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    No disagreement here on the target #1disadvantage in a hostile situation.

    I'd add that sometimes the sight of a OC (think Virginia's required OC in places with ABC on-premise, here) can create a hostile response.

    OTOH -- I personally have been two situations (and know others in the OC community who report more) where perceived potential threats altered their body language and movement upon seeing that I was armed.

    Was I in real danger? No way to prove it. However, when two rather unpleasant looking young men pass you on the other side of a street (eyeballing you), cross the street, come back toward you, at twenty some feet they split so as to pass on both the street & building sides of you, and one is reached under his shirt -- what do you think? Then when you do the VA Tuck and place you hand on the grip, the one w/o his hand inside his shirt says something to the other, they both turn around and walk away, what do you think? Yes, this was a CC converted to an OC. However, were VA not a OC State, it would have been illegal.

    The other was OC all the way and less dramatic.
    I know several people have have done this in Georgia, where OC is legal... they CC most of the time but when they are around some lonely looking place, especially if they perceived a BG eying them they move to OC.

    I think this is a good strategy where ever it is legal to OC and CC... if I were in a lonely parking lot real late at night coming from Kroger super market or some place, I would rather be OCing but I would never concider OCing 24/7.
    http://www.bloombergfightbackfund.com/
    Sig P220R/Sig P239 (9mm)/ S&W 640/ Ruger Single Six Hunter (.22LR/Mag)/ CZ 452 Varmint .22LR/ Lee Enfield No4 MK2 sporterized dated 1959/ Mosin Nagant M90-30 dated 1942/

  12. #57
    JD
    JD is offline
    Administrator
    Array JD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    19,319
    Quote Originally Posted by BAC View Post
    Word!


    -B
    Oh great, not this again...

  13. #58
    Senior Member Array CR2008's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    660

    Criminals fear an armed citizen MORE than the police.

    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    I am in total agreement that the sight of a gun may deter crime, but it is still an unknown. But how many times have you heard about a gun on someone's hip deterring a crime? As I have not heard about it on the news or a forum somewhere, does that mean it really hasn't happened?

    ...all I was saying is that neither can be PROVEN and there's no sense in arguing over it. It's just like the which is better, Coke or Pepsi, it's all opinion, very little fact.
    Psychologically, criminals target people who pose less of a threat, as well as those who are oblivious, they do not randomly pick targets... disabled people, the elderly, women etc fit this category on the most part. And most criminals fear the armed citizen even more than law enforcement, that is a statistical fact that is EASY to look up. If some loiterer were look out for who makes a suitable target, a person with a gun on their hip is just about the last person they want to mess with, why not the lady busy loading groceries into the mini van some lanes down? She will pose less of a threat, and she won't even know what hit her to begin with.
    http://www.bloombergfightbackfund.com/
    Sig P220R/Sig P239 (9mm)/ S&W 640/ Ruger Single Six Hunter (.22LR/Mag)/ CZ 452 Varmint .22LR/ Lee Enfield No4 MK2 sporterized dated 1959/ Mosin Nagant M90-30 dated 1942/

  14. #59
    JD
    JD is offline
    Administrator
    Array JD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    19,319
    Quote Originally Posted by CR2008 View Post
    Psychologically, criminals target people who pose less of a threat, as well as those who are oblivious, they do not randomly pick targets... disabled people, the elderly, women etc fit this category on the most part. And most criminals fear the armed citizen even more than law enforcement, that is a statistical fact that is EASY to look up. If some loiterer were look out for who makes a suitable target, a person with a gun on their hip is just about the last person they want to mess with.
    Right, as stated earlier I agree.

    But what about criminals that aren't in their right mind, take your methheads, crackheads, and probably the worse case scenario, the suicide shooter.

    If the last one sees you first, he's probably going to definitely shoot you first, he's there with the gun, no turning back....

    My only point in going against the above stated is that to dismiss the possibility of being targeted due to it being unlikely, is that we all ready planning on what to do if we find ourselves in an unlikely circumstance.

    We carry a gun so that in the unlikely event that we need it, we have it.

    We carry spare magazines in the unlikely event that we need more than one.

    We carry spare guns in the unlikely event that we need more than one.

    We carry knives in the unlikely event that we need to use it to fend off an attacker.

    We do all these things because there is a possibility that we may need them no matter how unlikely the circumstance.

    So while I totally understand that the presence of a gun can deter crime, I'm not going to pretend it's a force field that will keep unlikely circumstances from occuring, I am a firm believer in Muprhy's Law...

    If it can go wrong, it will.




    No matter how unlikely.

  15. #60
    Senior Member Array CR2008's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    660
    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post

    So while I totally understand that the presence of a gun can deter crime, I'm not going to pretend it's a force field that will keep unlikely circumstances from occuring, I am a firm believer in Muprhy's Law...

    If it can go wrong, it will.

    No matter how unlikely.
    Armed guards OCing is another example. Where I live, even the small local fast food joints have armed security inside them who OCs, the bank has it, and so do other places (not shocked, DeKalb has an increasing crime rate, and being robbed is not good for business)... any one wanting to commit an armed robbery is certainly most likely to go for places with no armed security guards.

    Though being armed is no magic bullet prof vest, and I can understand what you said about a crazy maniac shooting the armed guard, armed citizen who is OCing etc first but I don't even see this as likely if it were to happen, if a crazed maniac were to shoot any body first it most likely will be the one who is closest to his field of view. And people who OC have a responsibility to have a high awareness of other people around them, they typically position themselves in such a way that people won't be so close as to grab their weapon, most of them are not the type to want to stand next to people.

    The only reason I don't OC is due to the calling police due to their ignorance, and many LEOs are intollerant of legally armed citizens in DeKalb so the only way I would personally OC is if I had to go some where real late at night and I suspected a loiterer targeting me across the way... all I would have to do is to move or unbutton my shirt to make the IWB holstered gun OC (and I wear an undershirt to keep reduce sweet getting on my gun.)
    http://www.bloombergfightbackfund.com/
    Sig P220R/Sig P239 (9mm)/ S&W 640/ Ruger Single Six Hunter (.22LR/Mag)/ CZ 452 Varmint .22LR/ Lee Enfield No4 MK2 sporterized dated 1959/ Mosin Nagant M90-30 dated 1942/

Page 4 of 9 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Funny concealed carry with an obviously OPEN carry holster I saw today...
    By targus in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: April 19th, 2010, 06:09 PM
  2. Open carry inside house in a concealed carry state...
    By RogerThat in forum Open Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: January 3rd, 2010, 08:40 PM
  3. Interesting article regarding TX open carry and campus carry
    By arawn in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: February 2nd, 2009, 09:01 PM
  4. open carry..open id
    By something in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: September 18th, 2006, 11:18 PM

Search tags for this page

vcdl open carry

,

what do people think of open carry

Click on a term to search for related topics.