Man arrested for carrying at Obama rally

This is a discussion on Man arrested for carrying at Obama rally within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; All legal matters aside, I think the reason they treated this guy the way they did was obviously because Obama was there; i noticed another ...

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Thread: Man arrested for carrying at Obama rally

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    All legal matters aside, I think the reason they treated this guy the way they did was obviously because Obama was there; i noticed another poster said he was OC within 20 feet of Hillary and was not arrested, but can you imagine the backlash in the media if Beaver, Pa. was the place where a "crazed gunman" assassinated democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama? After all, the man was carrying a gun right out in the open and just walked up and .......

    So you just know the local LEOs are going to be all over anyone packing heat within a mile of Obama just because nobody wants to be known as the place where some yahoo gunned him down. Just ask anyone from Dallas, TX about that. Dallas will be forever known as the place where Camelot died when President Kennedy was killed.
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Free American View Post
    papers please
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    Member Array tflhndn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edr9x23super View Post
    All legal matters aside, I think the reason they treated this guy the way they did was obviously because Obama was there; i noticed another poster said he was OC within 20 feet of Hillary and was not arrested, but can you imagine the backlash in the media if Beaver, Pa. was the place where a "crazed gunman" assassinated democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama? After all, the man was carrying a gun right out in the open and just walked up and .......

    So you just know the local LEOs are going to be all over anyone packing heat within a mile of Obama just because nobody wants to be known as the place where some yahoo gunned him down.
    While this is true, there is a substantial difference between LEo approaching this man, detaining him, arresting him and charging him.
    Under the circumstances, I don't think anyone would be surprised by LEO approaching the man and chatting with him. IMHO, they would be negligent not to.
    While I do not personally agree with it, I could see the man being asked to disarm given the impending arrival of a presidential candidate.
    What, at least according to the info we have, is problematic is the arrest.

  5. #19
    Ex Member Array jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tflhndn View Post
    While this is true, there is a substantial difference between LEo approaching this man, detaining him, arresting him and charging him.
    Under the circumstances, I don't think anyone would be surprised by LEO approaching the man and chatting with him. IMHO, they would be negligent not to.
    While I do not personally agree with it, I could see the man being asked to disarm given the impending arrival of a presidential candidate.
    What, at least according to the info we have, is problematic is the arrest.

    being approached by LEO and having a chat about why OC was probably not a good idea would have been acceptable. being arrested and charged with a non-existant crime, while being outside of the secret service's security "perimeter" in peaceful protest, is not acceptable, at all. the man who was arrested had a bible and a holstered gun, while passing out gun rights fliers and other media, in an obvious protest to mr. obama's comments on people who "cling to their religion and their guns" in PA.

    what this whole situation boils down to, is that mr. obama's camp is attempting to stifle any criticism, by any means necessary, from arresting reporters, to arresting non violent protesters. this goes beyond gun rights; it's a matter of general civil rights violations.

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jahwarrior72 View Post
    being approached by LEO and having a chat about why OC was probably not a good idea would have been acceptable. being arrested and charged with a non-existant crime, while being outside of the secret service's security "perimeter" in peaceful protest, is not acceptable, at all. the man who was arrested had a bible and a holstered gun, while passing out gun rights fliers and other media, in an obvious protest to mr. obama's comments on people who "cling to their religion and their guns" in PA.

    what this whole situation boils down to, is that mr. obama's camp is attempting to stifle any criticism, by any means necessary, from arresting reporters, to arresting non violent protesters. this goes beyond gun rights; it's a matter of general civil rights violations.
    I don't think this has anything to do with Obama. I think the same thing would have happened if it had been McCain who was coming. SS and LEO are going to error on the side of caution, after all the protection of the life of the candidate is their main concern. I do not agree with the man being arrested, and I think eventually the charges will be dropped. Theres no doubt it could have been handled in a better way.
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  7. #21
    Ex Member Array jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    updates on the story:

    Industry man contests arrest outside Obama rally

    Industry man contests arrest outside Obama rally
    Saturday, August 30, 2008
    By Milan Simonich, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

    A Beaver County man who routinely wears a pistol on his hip says he was illegally arrested by local law officers before a rally for Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama.

    "I am a threat to no one. Mr. Obama doesn't trump my constitutional rights. The president of the United States doesn't trump my constitutional rights," said John Noble, who was handcuffed, questioned for about two hours and then told by state police that he would receive two citations for disorderly conduct.

    Mr. Noble, 50, of Industry, said he wore a holstered Glock 19 when he entered the park across the street from the Beaver County Courthouse more than an hour before Mr. Obama arrived for a campaign appearance Friday night.

    "I had a Bible in one hand and an apple in the other. I was going to pass out my fliers [on the rights of law-abiding Americans to carry guns], but I never got the chance."

    State police in Beaver County referred questions about Mr. Noble's arrest to Trooper Shawn Schexnaildre, of New Castle, who was part of the law enforcement detail in the park. The trooper, who was to begin his shift later today, could not be reached immediately for comment.

    Jim Gehr, agent in charge of the U.S. Secret Service field office in Pittsburgh, said the federal agency did not file any charges against Mr. Noble.

    "Our people did talk to him. He never entered the event area," Agent Gehr said.

    Mr. Noble said four or five law officers, plus a police dog, descended on him after somebody reported that he was wearing a pistol on his hip. He said they held him for 40 minutes in a Secret Service vehicle, then took him to the Beaver barracks of the state police for questioning. After being cuffed and shackled, he said, police eventually read him his rights. They also confiscated his pistol.

    "Didn't even give me a receipt for it. There were lots of violations of my constitutional rights," Mr. Noble said,

    After his arrest, his wife, Janet, handed out his fliers on citizens' rights to carry guns.

    Mr. Noble said he had not decided whether to support Mr. Obama or Republican John McCain in the presidential election. He said he hoped Mr. Obama would call him to affirm the right of a law-abiding man to carry a pistol while a presidential contender visited.

    Mr. Noble, a former body guard, said he used to carry his pistol in his clothing. But, he said, he has openly worn his handgun in a secure holster for the last four or five years. Nobody ever bothered him before, he said. He said he sometimes is asked why he carries a gun, and he explains that it is his constitutional right. In a practical sense, he said, he arms himself for protection.

    He said he has a lawyer and may bring a lawsuit over his treatment by police.

  8. #22
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    Please articulate exactly how Sen. Obama took actions that led to this man's arrest? The Secret Service was only involved after the PA State Police took the man into custody. Ya'll are getting your undies in a bunch about Obama trampling this man's rights when in reality it was the PA State Police that did it. The Secret Service said the man was outside their event area and therefore they could care less about him. If you have info that indicates that Obama gave orders to the PA State Police to trample on the rights of people who may be in the area, and that held positions that Obama doesn't agree with, I'll bet there would be a line of people wanting to see it.

    If ya'll can't control your urges to candidate bash, this one will get locked.
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  9. #23
    Senior Member Array PaulG's Avatar
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    The statement in the update that jumped out at me was:

    Jim Gehr, agent in charge of the U.S. Secret Service field office in Pittsburgh, said the federal agency did not file any charges against Mr. Noble.

    "Our people did talk to him. He never entered the event area," Agent Gehr said.


    This seems to rule out the notion that he violated the Federal law about entering an area protected by the SS.

    I think he will be vindicated.
    fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    ...SS and LEO are going to error on the side of caution,
    SS? Who invited the German's to this security detail?

    All kidding aside, In regards to USC Title 18, Section 1752 (Temporary residence & offices of the President and others...) (1.) (i) Any building or grounds...
    (ii) Any posted or cordoned off area...


    If the man was in fact outside of the cordoned off security area for the Obama visit, then I believe it would be an illegal arrest. (standard disclaimer: this is my opinion folks... I am not an attorney)

    The fact that the Secret Service did not file any charges of their own speaks volumes!

    The Secret Service is pretty serious as to their protection duties. And rightfully so. Especially after Dallas! If there were legitimate charges to be filed, the Secret Service would have filed charges of their own for sure.

    What happened in my opinion, is they accomplished a harassing technique that accomplished what they wanted. They got a "man with a gun" out of the area for the event. Problem solved! Any violation of the mans civil rights, if any stem from it, won't come back on the Secret Service. It will only reflect and ensnare the local LEO's and the State of PA.

    Feds go home with no dirt on them and PA is left with a lawsuit to clean up.

    Pretty shoddy ethics if you ask me, if things are as they appear.

    JMHO...

    Now... If his only reason for carrying a gun is for his own personal protection, why the heck was he open carrying? In my opinion it was to make a statement first, personal protection second. In my opinion, he should have known better than to open carry in a situation like this. Just playing a "cat-n-mouse" game with LEO. It may have been his right to open carry, but in my opinion, using a gun to make a political statement just begs for trouble. As far as I'm concerned he was foolish in the extreme! And demonstrated a gross lack of judgment.

    YMMV
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  11. #25
    kpw
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    Maybe it was the bible he was carrying that they didn't like. He was clinging to his gun and his religion...literally. Someone must have thought he was bitter, too!

  12. #26
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    I think different rules apply with politicians...When I was in the Military my Unit guarded and Air Defense Unit (We were all armed) George Bush Sr (Vice President at the time) visited the facility ...The night prior to his arrival Secret Service stopped by and removed all our Ammo..We stood guard w/o Ammo...We did have help from the Geese that walked the perimeter.

  13. #27
    Member Array Emahevul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IfIhaveto View Post
    I think different rules apply with politicians...When I was in the Military my Unit guarded and Air Defense Unit (We were all armed) George Bush Sr (Vice President at the time) visited the facility ...The night prior to his arrival Secret Service stopped by and removed all our Ammo..We stood guard w/o Ammo...We did have help from the Geese that walked the perimeter.
    I can remember standing guard MANY time in the late '80's when I was assigned to Ferris Barracks in Erlangen Germany. We would be posted with M-16 in hand, magazine in the well......unloaded.


  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by automatic slim View Post
    As a retired LEO allow me to comment. I read the article but was unable to determine which state this was in. If it was an open carry state this man was certainly within his rights. As for the disorderly conduct charge, that would depend wholly on how the statute was written. Many contain the phrase "any action which causes others distress". In this case the charges may stick. Such wording is intended to give law enforcement the upper hand when encountering
    situations not specifically covered by law, such as pan handling, which many locales don't have on the books because it's never been a problem. Such wording however does invite abuse, when it is used just to get someone off the street. If I was this gentleman I would certainly consult a lawyer.

    "any action which causes others distress" I HATE such vague laws such as that-----All laws should be objective not subjective. For example if watching a gay couple holding hands and kissing in public gives me "distress" should they be arrested---I don't think so. To me, any legislator that draws up silly laws such as that are either to stupid or lazy to figure out the right thing to do.


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  15. #29
    Ex Member Array jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    i guess now you can be charged with a "future" crime, a la "the Minority Report":

    MTN Jack arrested - Pennsylvania

    In filing charges, state police Trooper Shawn L. Schexnaildre said “the accused’s political agenda and intent to disrupt the proceedings at the Obama rally were clearly evident by his own statement and actions.”

    However, Schexnaildre pointed out that Noble did not violate the law by simply having the gun, as it’s legal in Pennsylvania to wear a weapon out in the open without a permit.

    ...Schexnaildre said Noble’s answers indicated “his intent was to disrupt the proceedings.” The trooper added that Noble said “he did not think he would get within a mile of the senator, but was apprehended within 100 yards of the podium after crossing the outer perimeter barrier tape and being in a position to see no less than a dozen police officers.”
    i foresee the charges being dismissed. by schexnaildre's own admission, noble commited no crime.

  16. #30
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    G.I.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emahevul View Post
    I can remember standing guard MANY time in the late '80's when I was assigned to Ferris Barracks in Erlangen Germany. We would be posted with M-16 in hand, magazine in the well......unloaded.

    All I can say is G. I.

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