Pistol-packing Pa. soccer mom loses gun permit (Merged)

This is a discussion on Pistol-packing Pa. soccer mom loses gun permit (Merged) within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Rusty Bouquett The sheriff said he pulled her LTCF under a provision of the law which says he may do so when ...

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Thread: Pistol-packing Pa. soccer mom loses gun permit (Merged)

  1. #151
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Bouquett View Post
    The sheriff said he pulled her LTCF under a provision of the law which says he may do so when somebody's "character and reputation" make them a danger to others. I don't know about the rest of you but "character and reputation" seem awfully broad and would, at best, be very difficult to ascertain.
    Wanna hear something funny? By revoking her LTCF...the Sheriff forced her to carry OPEN anyway. You only need a LTCF to carry concealed.

    So really, what has the Sheriff done in response to complaints someone open carried?

    ...he REVOKES her license to CONCEAL.

    How's that for irony?

    There was nothing about her character or reputation that was in question...she followed the law.

    Riddle me this: How could the Sheriff justify revoking a LTCF for following the law?
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  3. #152
    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Wake up people. Sometimes we have to refuse to sit in the back of the bus. If we are afraid to exercise our right havn't we in effect lost them with out force?
    Should we hide under our beds hoping that we will go unnoticed?
    The lady commited no crime! Maybe she was exercising her free speach rights in making a point in public? We dont know her reason for what she did.
    I can't believe that folks on this forum are not behind her. You are allowing them to cull the herd. Same as the wolves do when going after a calf. Just picking off the weak ones first.
    We have to stick together when we are in the right. Remember she was fully within her rights.

    Michael
    I think these are great discussions and thoughts...makes people think. I also know each have their own reasons for how they carry...be it OC or CC. In that light, take for a moment the rules of democracy...i.e., he/she who have the most votes wins (51 to 49). We also know that there is a very large fraction of the US that is anti-weapons of any sort and no doubt a number that are either imbevelent or on the fence...a fact that is greater than 51% So, take this situation for a moment...did she help or hurt the cause?

    My point is it is not about rights...

    Rick

  4. #153
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    I just edited or deleted about a dozen posts. We will NOT be insulting to each other on this forum.

    The only reason I didn't lock this thread is because a decent discussion about rights and discretion is being conducted. In a civil manner, Carry On.
    eschew obfuscation

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  5. #154
    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
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    I'm not a mod but I'd like to throw this out there too... Those who only CC... please don't ruin this for those of us who OC if you are opposed to it. You can have your opinion and that's fine. Thank you CopperKnight for deleting any bad posts, I must have caught the tail end of things. I don't want to see the OC section disappear, if you are opposed to OC please stick to the CC threads.

  6. #155
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandit383 View Post
    I think these are great discussions and thoughts...makes people think. I also know each have their own reasons for how they carry...be it OC or CC. In that light, take for a moment the rules of democracy...i.e., he/she who have the most votes wins (51 to 49). We also know that there is a very large fraction of the US that is anti-weapons of any sort and no doubt a number that are either imbevelent or on the fence...a fact that is greater than 51% So, take this situation for a moment...did she help or hurt the cause?

    My point is it is not about rights...

    Rick
    We do not live in a democracy,we live in a republic. A democracy is nothing more than mob rule.
    The people we elect take an oath to protect the constitution and in doing so might possibly have to make a stand against what the majority of people want.
    The problem we have nowdays is that our representavies no longer are willing to protect the constitution if it could cost them the majority vote.

    Michael

  7. #156
    Member Array jfrommbg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandit383 View Post
    I think these are great discussions and thoughts...makes people think. I also know each have their own reasons for how they carry...be it OC or CC. In that light, take for a moment the rules of democracy...i.e., he/she who have the most votes wins (51 to 49). We also know that there is a very large fraction of the US that is anti-weapons of any sort and no doubt a number that are either imbevelent or on the fence...a fact that is greater than 51% So, take this situation for a moment...did she help or hurt the cause?

    My point is it is not about rights...

    Rick
    As a resident of PA and a LCTF holder that knows the laws of PA I think she needed to sue him and glad she did. I do not OC and am not an OC fan but what she did was LEGAL. The sheriff revoking her LCTF for just OCing was not in accordance with the PA constitution and laws. A right is not a right if not exercised. I am not sure how you can decouple this from a basic right. The PA supreme court has ruled that it is LEGAL according the PA state constitution to OC. I think the only thing that would hurt the cause [right to bear arms] is if she did nothing and allowed her rights to be infringed. The sheriff cannot make up laws to revoke a persons LCTF if no law was broken and that is what they will do if we allow them to get away with it. Again, I am no OC fan but I don't want my LCTF to be revoked for doing something completely legal. It's the media's reporting of this and lack of clarity and understanding of the PA laws by the media that's hurting the cause if anything. But then again the media is so left slanted it is to be expected. The bigger irony than, that she had to OC after her LCTF was revoked as previously stated in this thread, is the fact that I am actually supporting her in this forum when I actually left another forum due to all the OC talk. Go figure.

    Some people at the soccer game didn't like her OCing and maybe a better judgement was to not OC but when it comes to giving up a right to make a few happy vs exercising and defending a right, I side with the laws and constitution on this. Don't kid yourself. The gun banners want guns banned or restricted as much as they can whether we bury our heads in the sand or try go appease the antis. I seriously doubt that appeasement will help the cause.

  8. #157
    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandit383 View Post
    did she help or hurt the cause?

    My point is it is not about rights...

    Rick
    My opinion is that she helped the cause by exercising her 2A right, and to me this case is all about rights. Reduced to the simplest terms: if she violated a law, she should be punished appropriately; if she did not violate a law, the sheriff should have done nothing.

    From the public details of the story, open carry is legal where she was. No action was required by LEOs. Should have been the end of the story, with nothing in the news about it.

  9. #158
    Senior Member Array FlyboyLDB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmahle68 View Post
    IMO she is poster child for the gun grabbers. I carry concealed in PA. She is a threat to my rights. She is endangering herself too. How many open carry police officers get a gun snatched by a bad guy. I could go on and on about her behavior. I hope she goes to look for support from the gun owning / 2nd amendment communities on the net and reads comments like mine. What does she want to prove? That she is protecting all the sheeple?
    Wow! I cannot speak for her. But for me, open carry is just another LEGAL option. You opinion is BOGUS that just because one open carries, his/her gun is up for grabs - I say no more than concealed - once the gun comes into play - all bet are off.

    2nd - the BG will not be "CASING" the people to check their carry status. They will have a plan that needs to be carried out quickly.

    3rd - most people never notice that I am carrying when OCing. So any argument for element of surprise being lost is also bogus.

    4th - how can she cost you your rights - or anyone else? She was completely LEGAL in OCing. I think most will be in support of her and your 2A rights.

    It sounds more like you are from the anti 2A camp.

  10. #159
    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    We do not live in a democracy,we live in a republic. A democracy is nothing more than mob rule.
    The people we elect take an oath to protect the constitution and in doing so might possibly have to make a stand against what the majority of people want.
    The problem we have nowdays is that our representavies no longer are willing to protect the constitution if it could cost them the majority vote.

    Michael
    Well...I beg to differ. There are a number of referendums that are put forward to change state constitutions...ah, and you thought it was all about THE constitution. Take for example carry at schools or OC. A number of states forbid it...why is that? If it was such a solid stance, why not put forward a referendum to make it so?

    I am lost in your circular logic..."possibly have to make a stand against what the majority of people want" with "no longer are willing to protect the constitution if it could cost them the majority vote."

    Rick

  11. #160
    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfrommbg View Post
    \Some people at the soccer game didn't like her OCing and maybe a better judgement was to not OC but when it comes to giving up a right to make a few happy vs exercising and defending a right, I side with the laws and constitution on this. Don't kid yourself. The gun banners want guns banned or restricted as much as they can whether we bury our heads in the sand or try go appease the antis. I seriously doubt that appeasement will help the cause.
    I never said she didn't have the right...and I am glad she is fighting those that attempted to infridge upon her right. But the issue becomes..."I won the battle, but lost the war'...how many fell off the fence to the negative side?

    Rick

  12. #161
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    This thread has 16 pages and has run its course.

    Time for a new discussion.

    Locked.
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