Pistol-packing Pa. soccer mom loses gun permit (Merged)

This is a discussion on Pistol-packing Pa. soccer mom loses gun permit (Merged) within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by cphilip I am speechless... Maybe you should learn to finish reading paragraphs then. Not gonna argue with the rest of your post, ...

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Thread: Pistol-packing Pa. soccer mom loses gun permit (Merged)

  1. #46
    Member Array DeathByCactus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cphilip View Post
    I am speechless...
    Maybe you should learn to finish reading paragraphs then.

    Not gonna argue with the rest of your post, however I said it is possible and you should have noted that.

    If you want to deal with the legal problems and hassles from making calls that frightened people would object to, your call buddy. I don't have time for that BS, if that means I can't save other kids so be it, I will take my kid and let the cycle of life take the others.

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  3. #47
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeathByCactus View Post
    Maybe you should learn to finish reading paragraphs then.

    Not gonna argue with the rest of your post, however I said it is possible and you should have noted that.

    If you want to deal with the legal problems and hassles from making calls that frightened people would object to, your call buddy. I don't have time for that BS, if that means I can't save other kids so be it, I will take my kid and let the cycle of life take the others.
    The only problem here is that you've made an assumption that you will always have safe egress while unarmed. That's just not the case. It's like gambling...only you're playing as the house. Sure the odds are stacked in your favor, but every now and then some MIT guy comes along and fudges up your odds.

    Point is...sometimes you may need that sidearm to get out safely. As for the comment about a madman shooting up a youth league...
    Not too long ago(right around 10 years ago or so) most would have thought a madman shooting up a school full of children would be outrageous. We can all see how that thought panned out the last few years.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
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  4. #48
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    [QUOTE=

    I wouldn't bring a gun on grounds of my kids baseball game, I would keep it in my car... or carry a 2 shot in my boot.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm not sure I see the logic here. Besides 10 rounds, I don't see the difference between my 9mm in an IWB and a 2 shot in my boot.

  5. #49
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeathByCactus View Post
    Bad judgment.
    I agree. The Sheriff and the whining adults at the game should be ashamed.

    The lady in question sees the need to carry everywhere. Kudos to her, for simply realizing it's not possible to predict when or where crimes will occur. The day the ACME Criminals' Union publishes a calendar of events, then we can speak about alternatives. Reality is, she's got her kids to protect ... not just at a given venue, but both to and from that location and everywhere in between.

    Dollar to a doughnut that the kids at that game realized the simplicity of what they were seeing, which was the mother of a child NOT HARMING ANYONE and yet wearing a firearm at her child's game. It's the adults who got bent, I'm sure, believing they had found an opportunity where control could be exerted in their uncontrolled little lives. If the laws of that state are what everyone's been stating, then there appears to be no legal justification for the heist of her CHL. She was not a threat, was not causing problems, by all accounts.

    Bad judgment? Indeed, IMO not on the part of the parent guarding her children.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  6. #50
    Member Array DeathByCactus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    The only problem here is that you've made an assumption that you will always have safe egress while unarmed. That's just not the case. It's like gambling...only you're playing as the house. Sure the odds are stacked in your favor, but every now and then some MIT guy comes along and fudges up your odds.

    Point is...sometimes you may need that sidearm to get out safely. As for the comment about a madman shooting up a youth league...
    Not too long ago(right around 10 years ago or so) most would have thought a madman shooting up a school full of children would be outrageous. We can all see how that thought panned out the last few years.
    No I agree, I remember most shootings involving children that have hit the primary and secondary news forms. I am playing the house, but compare playing the house to playing a defendant in court and having to spend the next 3 years fighting in court to get my license back... meh.

    Good post tho.

    As to Jerry, the difference is a 2 shot in my boot will not be seen or noticed by ANYONE at all. Even if I get jumped by an angry parent and have to beat him down or get beat down and my shirt gets ripped off. Which is more likely to happen than me getting shot at at a kids soccer game.

    I don't think she should lose her license. I just wouldn't have put myself in that situation. Partly because I am tired of dealing our court system. It seems to me there are multiple bad decisions being made in this case.

    Chances are the decision will be revoked, at which point... If I were her, I would wear it back to the game. I just hate dealing with the courts.
    Last edited by pgrass101; September 25th, 2008 at 10:30 PM. Reason: edited language

  7. #51
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    If it is legal give her a break! If Not Uphold it. I think it was OK. They freak out because she open carries a weapon, something they are not use to. We will have alot more Shock And Awe before it is over with.
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  8. #52
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    ok I have not taken the time to read all of this but have gotten half way through it and have not found this. Legally the only time when ANYONE can kick her off of the field at a soccer game where she is legally there is a STATE REF licensed by AYSO. Most soccer leagues dont use these Refs for that age group so Legally the only person who could force her to leave since she was there legally would be the STATE AYSO Licensed REF, and only by following FIFAs Laws of the Game. Then if she refused it would be trespassing on HIS field and failure to obey the lawful order of a state official.

    I am a Former PA soccer Ref and man why do we give this legal power to 12 year olds?

    Anyhow she was legal and should get her permit back.
    Mark

    "The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose."

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  9. #53
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    There is a very strong open-carry movement in PA, right now. Private property signs that prohibit firearms hold no legal ground in PA. Now PA licenses are needed to carry concealed, but no license whatsoever is needed for open carry. Nocking someone for expressing their given gun right is bland. Alot of people using this sort of carry are getting taxed by the local Sheriff's. Lawsuits are filing by the week. People have to get used top the fact that guns exist.
    One more step and it's on!

  10. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaystekan View Post
    Well, if she got a warning from soccer officials, it sounds like she was asked by whomever is in charge of the soccer program to not carry her weapon. Technically, the soccer officials are in charge of that property while the game is in progress, and they do have the right to prohibit carrying a firearm. She chooses to continue carrying against their wishes/warning, then it could be trespassing.
    Flag! What is your source for these assertions? PA has pre-emption--meaning unless it is against State law, she can carry in any manner and anywhere except as posted.

    Now that her permit has been revoked (which I expect her to get back), she MUST open carry. So what exactly has been accomplished?
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  11. #55
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    I don't go to schools unless it's absolutely necessary. Even then, I am an unwilling participant.

  12. #56
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    Legally she did nothing wrong. I live in Texas, we don't have open carry, personally I don't want to be at my 5 yr olds game and look over and see someone open carrying, unless its a LEO. I think it presents all types of problems that would not exist if carrying concealed. Thats my personnal opinion. It strikes me as strange that she had her concealed liscence and still chose to open carry, whats the advantage to that, is she trying to draw attention to herself what tactical or defensive advantage is gained, none gained and many lost. I feel she exercised poor judgement and do you want people who have poor judgement carrying guns. Also it appears that no training or remedial safety course is needed to open carry in PA only the fact that you own a gun, thats disturbing as well.

  13. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by HKtexas View Post
    Legally she did nothing wrong. I live in Texas, we don't have open carry, personally I don't want to be at my 5 yr olds game and look over and see someone open carrying, unless its a LEO. I think it presents all types of problems that would not exist if carrying concealed. Thats my personnal opinion. It strikes me as strange that she had her concealed liscence and still chose to open carry, whats the advantage to that, is she trying to draw attention to herself what tactical or defensive advantage is gained, none gained and many lost. I feel she exercised poor judgment and do you want people who have poor judgement carrying guns. Also it appears that no training or remedial safety course is needed to open carry in PA only the fact that you own a gun, thats disturbing as well.
    So far the only "responsible" gun ownership most people are exposed to comes from TV--and we know how well that has turned out. The mindset "I only want to see LEOs carry" is one that is slowly (glacier-like) being changed in places like VA, PA, AZ, etc. States that prohibit OC instill an unnecessary fear of OC (i.e. TX, CT, FL). While there was a period of time where I felt the same way you did, once I moved to an OC-legal state, and started to OC (occassionally), those fears subsided. As it has been mentioned in other threads, to carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol in VA, I MUST open carry. In most places where OC is not prohibited (thus, legal), it comes down to individual preference on method of carry.

    As to the "advantage" of OC vs CC--that is a debate not appropriate for this forum and against the posted rules. If you wish to debate, there is an open thread at OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum.

    Also it appears that no training or remedial safety course is needed to open carry in PA only the fact that you own a gun, thats disturbing as well.
    Same for VA....it's like a freedom, or something. How can you have a problem with that?
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  14. #58
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    Just a side note on this subject. PA does not issue a conceal carry permit. They issue a License to Carry Firearms.

    A License to Carry Firearms is issued to carry a firearm concealed on one’s person or in a vehicle within this Commonwealth. Any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person except in his place of abode or fixed place of business without a valid and lawfully issued license commits a felony of the third degree.
    This quote is directly from the PA State Police website.

    The following quote is from the original article.

    Hain tells the Lebanon Daily News she's always openly carried a firearm without any problems in the past.
    The woman has a preferred method of carry. She has a license so she can carry it when in her vehicle. She was not carrying in a prohibited location.
    What she did is no different than what I do when the wife and I go out to eat here in VA. The law prohibits conceal carry in anyplace alcohol is served for consumption. It does allow for open carry. If someone is "uncomfortable" that I am open carrying, that is their problem, not mine.
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  15. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    or just conceal it and be done with it.
    Agreed. What's to be gained by making a "statement" and continuing her open carry at the event?

  16. #60
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    Who said she was making a statement? On some days I prefer to OC--no reason, just a preference.
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

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