Pistol-packing Pa. soccer mom loses gun permit (Merged) - Page 6

Pistol-packing Pa. soccer mom loses gun permit (Merged)

This is a discussion on Pistol-packing Pa. soccer mom loses gun permit (Merged) within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; it's nice to see the law actually work for a change. i wouldn't go so far as to insult the judge; most judges will give ...

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Thread: Pistol-packing Pa. soccer mom loses gun permit (Merged)

  1. #76
    Ex Member Array jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    it's nice to see the law actually work for a change. i wouldn't go so far as to insult the judge; most judges will give their own judgement on a case before rendering a decision. many times, they will disagree with the verdict or ruling. he simply thought it was prudent to give a bit of advice. he did his job, and that's all anyone can ask for.

    video links:
    Videos | abc27 News
    Videos | abc27 News

    right now, the sheriff is dragging his feet. when the judge gave his ruling, the sheriff should have had the license in his hand, ready to hand it over. now he's attempting to wrap up the process in red tape, by claiming it has to go to Harrisburg, and then through the PA state police.


  2. #77
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    Actually, she HASN'T gotten her permit back yet. The Sherriff's office is giving her AND her attorney the "runaround". You can read the complete story at OCDO under the PA Forum.
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fixintu View Post
    Maybe instead, she was friends with these five dead little girls.

    It just amazes me how many gun owners on this site who seem to understand the need to defend themselves are so un-supportive of others rights to defend themselves and their children.

    Would it have been bad judgment for someone to pull a handgun from an open holster and shoot this man dead before he tied up eleven little girls and shot them one by one in the head while all the other little girls waited for their turn? Would it have been bad judgment after he executed the first little girl? The second? The third? The fourth?

    No, I'm sure we can all rest assured that all the liberals and anti-gunners in PA have made the place so much safer that now we can all collectively agree that carrying a gun to a children's soccer game in PA is clearly bad judgment.

  4. #79
    Ex Member Array jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by me View Post
    Legally the only time when ANYONE can kick her off of the field at a soccer game where she is legally there is a STATE REF licensed by AYSO. Most soccer leagues dont use these Refs for that age group so Legally the only person who could force her to leave since she was there legally would be the STATE AYSO Licensed REF, and only by following FIFAs Laws of the Game. Then if she refused it would be trespassing on HIS field and failure to obey the lawful order of a state official.
    i wanted to correct you on this point. according to state law, no one, not the town, municipality, or representative of either, can tell anyone they can't carry on public property; it violates PA preemption. being a state licensed referee doesn't authorize him/her to eject someone from a park. if the county sheriff told me he wanted me out, well, that's tough cookies for him. i ran into this problem myself in my county; the sheriff told me that if he saw anyone carrying in the park, or was called about it, he'd eject and cite whoever it was for disorderly conduct and being a 'public nuisance.' i told him i went to the park quite often, with my kids, and always armed. i also told him i have a lawyer on standby.

    i'm still waiting to be ejected.

  5. #80
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    I will always carry concealed unless I am forced(legally) to open carry. Like Sig said earlier, if I want to go out with my family for dinner, in a restaurant that serves alcohol in VA I have to open carry, I cannot legally carry concealed.

    Now, say I walk into this restaurant, and by VA law, open carry. In the restaurant I am eating dinner with my parents, enjoying myself, and someone notices my pistol.

    They call a waiter over, complaints are filed, the waiter tells him the law, "Sorry, but he is within his rights and its the law here in VA to open carry" ect.

    The police are called anyway, and because I "upset" some people in the restaurant, while following the letter of the law, my permit is taken?

    No no no. Stuff like this cannot happen. Regardless of what I think, or you think about Open Vs Concealed.

    ANYONE HERE would be completely upset, if the sheriff/police came to your house, told you someone saw you walking into your car the other day with what looked like a 'rifle case' and reported you as a gun owner. They were upset about it, so... Hand over the gun, and your permit to carry, we're taking all your firearms because you've upset people.

    Everyone here would be crazy against something like that happening.

    This is just about the same type of case. Someone mentioned earlier they carry concealed, but would be upset if their 5yr old was exposed to someone carrying openly, and not LEO? I'm sure one day your child is going to notice your gun, or you've spoken to them about it already...

    There are some weird attitudes in this post. Look at it from a logical/law abiding standpoint, and ignore the fact the lady might have attitude/weird views, or motives, or whatever the case may be.

  6. #81
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    My .02

    The way I view this is that she used poor judgement regardless of what the law states. She had a license to conceal and common courtesy says she should have done it if it upset other people. She could have still protected herself and not wasted a bunch of time for the sheriff, her lawyer, etc. We can sit here and say all we want that the law states this and the law states that. Think about how laws get changed. Enough people get excited about something and the area lawmakers pander to the excitement and the next thing you know you've got a Kalifornia, New York and name a few other places type of laws regarding carrying. You can dis me all you want, but I like my right to carry concealed or otherwise and if I have to make some minor changes to the way I carry and not rock the boat, I will. I think she did a great disservice to the carrying community.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryDonlan View Post
    The way I view this is that she used poor judgement regardless of what the law states. She had a license to conceal and common courtesy says she should have done it if it upset other people. She could have still protected herself and not wasted a bunch of time for the sheriff, her lawyer, etc. We can sit here and say all we want that the law states this and the law states that. Think about how laws get changed. Enough people get excited about something and the area lawmakers pander to the excitement and the next thing you know you've got a Kalifornia, New York and name a few other places type of laws regarding carrying. You can dis me all you want, but I like my right to carry concealed or otherwise and if I have to make some minor changes to the way I carry and not rock the boat, I will. I think she did a great disservice to the carrying community.
    The way I see it she did not waste anyones time. The ones who wasted time were the sheeple who didn't mind their own business, and the sheriff who doesn't know or doesn't want to follow the law.

    The way I view this is that she used poor judgement regardless of what the law states. She had a license to conceal and common courtesy says she should have done it if it upset other people.
    I carry concealed, except when I go out to eat where alcohol is served. Then I switch to open carry, which is what the law says I must do to remain armed. Using the "common courtesy" argument, I should disarm to keep the sheeple happy? That is not going to happen, they have several options:
    1. get over being sheep
    2. contact management (who may or may not ask me to leave)
    3. call the police (who should know the law and act appropriately)
    4. get up and leave
    Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.

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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    The way I see it she did not waste anyones time. The ones who wasted time were the sheeple who didn't mind their own business, and the sheriff who doesn't know or doesn't want to follow the law.



    I carry concealed, except when I go out to eat where alcohol is served. Then I switch to open carry, which is what the law says I must do to remain armed. Using the "common courtesy" argument, I should disarm to keep the sheeple happy? That is not going to happen, they have several options:
    1. get over being sheep
    2. contact management (who may or may not ask me to leave)
    3. call the police (who should know the law and act appropriately)
    4. get up and leave
    Archer 51, you can take a hard core position if you so desire. However, with all the attacks we have against our rights, I was trying to make the point that we should choose our battles in a wiser fashion. I'm a relatively new to carrying (less than a year) and I'm probably the biggest supporter (used to be a sheep, even though you seem to be suggesting I am one) of 2A in the circles in which I travel. I just think being this inflexible will hurt us in the long run. I realize I'm outnumbered here and I may be wrong, but I really don't want to jeopardize my right to defend myself and my family.

    I'm sure someone else will chime in.

  9. #84
    Senior Member Array unloved's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryDonlan View Post
    The way I view this is that she used poor judgement regardless of what the law states. She had a license to conceal and common courtesy says she should have done it if it upset other people.
    In what universe does common courtesy say I(or you) should not exercise my rights to appease some hoplophobe?

    She could have still protected herself and not wasted a bunch of time for the sheriff, her lawyer, etc.
    The sherriff wasted his own time. Not to mention that he broke the law. She did not.

    We can sit here and say all we want that the law states this and the law states that. Think about how laws get changed. Enough people get excited about something and the area lawmakers pander to the excitement and the next thing you know you've got a Kalifornia, New York and name a few other places type of laws regarding carrying
    .
    We just got a pro RKBA bill passed by unanimous vote in both houses. That includes the reps and senators from Philly and the anti parts of the Commonwealth.Despite what the Bradys or Ceasfire would have us believe, the antis are not as well organized or well motivated as we are. You might want to join in. We could use your voice.
    I think she did a great disservice to the carrying community.
    I mean no disrespect but this attitude is what got us here we are. We must all support each other in this battle.

  10. #85
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    I get the idea here that we should stay hidden and hope the threat goes away? Maybe the anti's wont notice we are out there? Has that logic ever worked?
    What I see working is this. They will say that no one ever uses the right to carry so it won't really be a big loss when they take it away.
    It used to be said that you either use it or lose it.
    Seems now its switched around. You're saying that if we actually use our rights that that will be cause to take them away.

    If thats the case can we ever be safe when invoking any of our rights?

    Michael

  11. #86
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    It's sad to hear that a legally armed citizen is being harrassed like this. If she prefers to open carry and its legal there then I don't see the problem. To me a right not exercised is a right lost. I personally think that she is giving up a tactical advantage by open carry as a citizen. If I was in the park, this lady watching her kid play soccer wouldn't alarming me anymore than seeing a gun on an LEO's belt. The only way I could see an individual preceiving this lady as coming off threatening is if they were going to try to commit a violent crime.

  12. #87
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    Jerry, I'm not suggesting you are a sheep. As to taking a hardcore position, yes I do. As someone who carrys a gun, I follow the law, I also expect the law to be followed when it is applied to me.

    Jones, who is also the county’s public defender, said he wasn’t certain if Hain was breaking the law by wearing the gun, so he did not ask her to remove it. However, he explained to her that its presence was making parents upset and asked her to view the game from the other side of the field, away from the sideline were the kids were standing. She complied but continued to wear her holstered weapon, he said.
    This woman did what she was asked to do, but it was not enough to appease the sheep at the game. The sheep will never be appeased, I won't live my life in fear of offending someone.
    Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.

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  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by unloved View Post


    You might want to join in. We could use your voice.

    I mean no disrespect but this attitude is what got us here we are. We must all support each other in this battle.
    OK, some more people posted and I've got shot up pretty bad. Some very good points of view and I'm in. I'm learning!

  14. #89
    Senior Member Array unloved's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryDonlan View Post
    OK, some more people posted and I've got shot up pretty bad. Some very good points of view and I'm in. I'm learning!
    I'm not trying to shoot you up brother. Just trying to point out that we can make good things happen if we stick together. The antis have been making great use of the divide and conquer strategy for about 30 years now.You should check out Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association. That's the Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association. We've got 10,000+ members and we're starting to make things happen. Also take a look at Firearms Owners Against Crime. That's Firearm Owners Against Crime. Kim Stolfer is an amazing activist. He works with legislators to write pro RKBA legislation.

  15. #90
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    Hmmm..Jerry...read my "signature"...That's my $0.02..Glad you are climbing on board.
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

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