Open Carry States Queston ???

Open Carry States Queston ???

This is a discussion on Open Carry States Queston ??? within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; As in earlier posts, I moved to Arizona from Ann Arbor, Michigan. You talk about left-wing, Ann Arbor is as Left Wing as you can ...

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Thread: Open Carry States Queston ???

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array mi2az's Avatar
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    Open Carry States Queston ???

    As in earlier posts, I moved to Arizona from Ann Arbor, Michigan. You talk about left-wing, Ann Arbor is as Left Wing as you can get.

    When I first moved down here and got over the culture shock about people walking with holstered guns, I thought those who open-carried could not qualify for a CCW since they might of been felon's in a past life. My CCW instructor informed me otherwise that if they were ex-felon's they could not even have a gun.

    Now for my question.

    Why would someone want to open-carry verses a CCW ?

    I always felt that if you open-carried, you were a prime target to get shot if someone had bad intentions since you were a known threat.

    Just looking for opinions


  2. #2
    Member Array Rev9mm's Avatar
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    Boy, oh boy . . .

    That question officially qualifies for a can o' worms.

    It's a question that it seems draws a lot of attention here. But as this forum is dedicated to concealed carry, I predict that very, very soon someone will suggest you research OC at an OC forum, that you do a forum search for the other times this has been discussed, and that then this thread will be politely locked.

    FWIW, I'm pretty securely in the CC category. While there may be valid times/places to OC, it's just not something to which I aspire.

  3. #3
    Member Array ImChad's Avatar
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    Its a valid question and debatable at worst but I'll give you my point of view. If others after this wish to debate my position, you're welcome to but I will not engage.

    Open carry in my mind can have the effect of "Kill the armed guy first" ButI don't really see it that way. Most criminals are cowards and spend little time at the range. Maybe they will be couragious enough to come shoot my in the head first, but I doubt it. Most likely, they'll see me packing and walk away. As a criminal wanting to rob a store would you jsut go shoot someone or pick another target and get away easy?

    I myself like open carry and I have very little trouble doing so. Most of the people in my great state don't pay attention and if they do, they always assume I'm a cop.

    The realy question is "why" and thats easy.

    1. comfort. I don't have to hide anything nor do I have to lift a shirt/pantleg/jacket or whatever other object is in my way.

    2. Speed. I can open draw much faster than CC draw.

    3. As stated above, I think it detures crime. Think in terms of places that do and don't allow firearms and their crime rate. Why would a criminal pick a gun fight with someone who is trained when they can move along to an unarmed victim waiting to happen?

    Yes, if someone is going on a killing spree they're going to shoot at me first. But, if they're just a small time criminal robbing a gas station they're going to move on to the weaker targets.

    Thats just my opinion and why I don't bother to CC anymore. others are entitled to whatever opinion they wish to have.

  4. #4
    Member Array VtCO's Avatar
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    The choice to OC vs CC is a rather personal one. I personally OC 99% of the time. I only CC when I'm going places where guns are typically not allowed (there is more to it than that, don't worry I'm not breaking the law).

    As far as making yourself a target, all the "evidence" on that is purely anecdotal. There has never been a confirmed case that a BG shot a GG because the GG OC'd (got enough abbreviations there?).

    CC gives you an advantage of no one knowing you're carrying. OC gives you an advantage of quicker draw and a possible (and realistic) deterrent (only a really really stupid BG mugs a guy openly carrying a gun).

    There are those on here that think OCing will only cause you trouble. There are those on other forums that think CCing will only cause you trouble.

    It's up to you. I find OC far more comforatble. You being in AZ (like me now too) you can't carry into certain places regardless of OCing or CCing. There is no difference in where you can go and what you can do (legally) in regards to OC vs CC.

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    I don't have a problem with people open carrying, assuming they are properly trained to do so. Anyone that wants to strap a gun on their hip and walk around with it out in the open should be highly trained in weapon retention techniques.

    I don't worry so much about the "shoot me first" aspect of being armed. If the bad guy is going to shoot you for having a gun he's going to be shooting at you when you try to draw from concealment. A gun in hand beats a holstered gun every single time it is tested.

    I also won't argue that many criminals are cowards. However, not all of them are. There is a segment of the criminal population that rightly assume that they can dominate just about anyone they come into contact with. These are the people you have to worry about. If a criminal decides that you open carrying is an invitation to try to steal your weapon you'd better be prepared. Some simple force on force simulations with a friend will show you that it isn't all that difficult to remove a pistol from a holster- even a retention holster. (God help you if you're using OWB Kydex in the test!) So if you're going to do it, spend the time, money, and pain that it will cost to be properly trained to do so.
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    Senior Member Array Al Lowe's Avatar
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    Oh, I use Fobus all the time. Not a single problem yet. And that's for the last 5 years.

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    Member Array Spike32's Avatar
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    Only when I absolutely have to, which in Virginia means whenever I go into a restaurant serving alcohol.
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    Member Array broknindarkagain's Avatar
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    I grew up in AZ so I'm fairly use to seeing holstered pistols on average people. I OCd for awhile while I lived in AZ until I moved.

    OC is easier to draw your weapon if need be and it also serves as a deturant(sp?). The only con I can think of is that you lose the element of surprise.
    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

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  9. #9
    Senior Member Array Al Lowe's Avatar
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    In response to a few posts in this thread, the original question was not, "do you open carry?" The original question was:

    Quote Originally Posted by mi2az
    Why would someone want to open-carry verses a CCW ?
    To which I'll just add a quote from another place:
    There is not a shred of evidence or a case in the U.S. that anyone has ever been able to come up with that any credence whatsoever to the assumption that open-carry makes you a target.
    I'll also point out, the above does not include police, as they are usually targets for a completely different (or additional) reason.

    The reasons for OCing are probably as varied as the reason for carrying at all. But I think, in general, the standard answer might be, because it IS a right, not a licensed privilege like CCing is. (Unless you're in Vermont or Alaska)

    I can OC in Michigan, without any permit. Granted, having a Michigan CPL lets me OC in even more places, and I don't have to put the weapon in the trunk of my car, when I have to drive somewhere.

    If I was under 21, but 18 or older, then OC would be the ONLY option I would have for self-defense.

    Tactically, I'd much rather the BG see my firearm and decide to go elsewhere, rather than having to risk my life once he makes his intentions known by holding up the place I'm in.

  10. #10
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    I live in the great open carry state of PA. However, I never have OCd. I may try it sometime just to see the reaction of folks, if any. I've never seen anyone OCing here in my 51 years on the planet. I understand the logic of those who say exercise the right or lose it. So I guess I'll get some exercise.

  11. #11
    Member Array Rusty Bouquett's Avatar
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    At 65 years of age and with a bad back, I don't want to get into a struggle with ANYBODY over the control of my gun, so OC is out of the question for me. However, for those of you who want to do it, do so with my blessing.

  12. #12
    Member Array Nelson Muntz's Avatar
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    Rusty, I respect your opinion. And your choice. It's right for you in your estimation.

    Some feel more comfortable with it, and able and aware to remain responsible enough to handle the situation they present. These people may feel that 'those that can, do - and can teach those that don't'. Excercising and KEEPING your rights have more responsibilities than just paying dues to a national organization or even lobbying our hired political masters. Some are comfortable enough to assist other citizens to 'relearn' their rights beyond what the MSM wants to indoctrinate them to. A good way is to be visible, be friendly, and be instructive. Many people don't even realize that they are already around firearm carriers everyday. I use this as an opportunity to help them relearn that normal people like themselves are endowed with the ability to be responsible to themselves and others around them. It really helps the light bulb to click on with alot of them, and those of us who want to retain our rights are happy to recruit plenty more to join us in that effort.

    Besides, I truly feel like a FREE man, unencumbered from restrictions on taking total, personal responsibility.

    ETA: bolded words, last sentence. Big difference with or without those two words.
    Last edited by Nelson Muntz; November 7th, 2008 at 07:16 PM. Reason: ETA: bolded words, last sentence. Big difference with or without those two words.

  13. #13
    Member Array chuck brick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mi2az View Post
    Why would someone want to open-carry verses a CCW ?
    Just looking for opinions
    Comfort and convenience, above all. If we all wore parkas year-round, CC would be easier; however, down South (I live in Central Texas) CC can be quite challenging if you don't work in an air-conditioned office. Even in winter, I only wear a coat about a dozen days out of the year. I work mostly outdoors - that means I have to hide the handgun under.....? And "printing" can get me "busted."
    There are other legitimate reasons also that I fully agree with, but that's my main pet peave.

    Stay safe,

    Chuck Brick.
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  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    I have OC at the family compound.

    Was my grand-fathers 100 acre farm, but has not been farmed in 50 or so years. Keep looking for what to call it. Family farm is not the right image, but family compound is not right eather. Thats a different thread.

    Anyhow, OC up there because of the occasional bear and badger. Also coyote, maybe a buck in rut, or the very rare boar to consider. Sometimes this turns into OC during lunch or dinner when we go to town.

    Then, OC from time to time at a SE MI shop. Not always, as the grey man theory has merits, but there are days, say when a business down the street was hit, that you feel like open carry to just let the BG know, there is trouble at this shop.

    We go back and forth on this at the shop, but if the econ continues to get bad, we get a little more willing to open carry. I guess the more you are already are a target the more you just like to do what you can to make an aggressive stance.

    One common thought at the shop, is that a good gun on your hip, might make you a worth while target. Most of the reports that people have showed us or we have researched, is that the wolves don't look for a fight. I think there was a thread on the forum about wolves, sheep dogs, and sheep. I guess I like OC because most wolves don't look for a fight with a sheep dog. Then just want to eat the fat off a tasty sheep.

    IDK, 99% of the time, I CC unless up north. But I also feel there is a place for OC.

  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
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    I find when I do OC, I'm more aware of my surroundings, and I find that I protect my strong side more when people come up from the side or behind me (say like in line at the store). I feel you can become more complacent when you CC. It becomes part of your routine. Just for the record I both OC and CC, depending on weather, mood, and where I am going. I have no greater preference for either.

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