Retention

This is a discussion on Retention within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I use a simple open top holster with no active retention. No one's stolen my gun off me yet (I know, that's a horrible reason ...

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Thread: Retention

  1. #16
    Member Array VtCO's Avatar
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    I use a simple open top holster with no active retention. No one's stolen my gun off me yet (I know, that's a horrible reason and it's not my real reason, I just like saying it :D). I haven't been able to come across any data showing where someone (not a cop, because that's a very different situation) has ever had their weapon taken off of them and shot with it. Cops use retention devices because they often fight with their suspects and a lot of times that turns into a wrestling match on the ground where it would be much easier for a BG to get their gun. I have no intentions of ever doing anything like that.

    I'm more than willing to go with a retention holster if someone can give me even one verified case of a non-LEO having their weapon taken away (out of the holster) and used against them (or just taken and ran away with).

    That and I don't like thumb breaks, I'd go with a SERPA, but I'm not sure they make one for an XD subcompact (I know they have an XD version, but I don't know if it's compatible with a subcompact, anyone know?)

    Edit: I just found the Serpa Sportster, looks like it's for XD SC's.
    Last edited by VtCO; November 4th, 2008 at 01:54 AM. Reason: update

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  3. #17
    Member Array spooter66's Avatar
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    Safariland model 6378. It has their ALS system so it's a Level II holster. Very nice holster and is easier to conceal than the Serpa. It hugs the body better that the Serpa and the holster is lined to protect the finish on your gun.
    "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals." - Sir Winston Churchill


  4. #18
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    For those of us that Open Carry, I do very infrequently and I think the last time was about five years ago, do you use some form of retention on your holster?

    For Open Carry the minimum for me is a Thumb Snap, and I prefer a Level III Duty Holster.

    Biker
    I use a Blackhawk Serpa, full forward cant at 3 o'clock. Sometimes when I'm hiking or backpacking and using the lumbar strap I'll use a field/shoulder rig which has a thumb strap. Around town I cover up and/or use an IWB holster.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
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    I have not yet OCed, but if I decided to do so, I would choose to acquire a holster with some kind of retention device.

    I was thinking Serpa also, obviously a popular model. I recently came across a report of a gunfighting force-on-force school which prohibits the use of Serpas because of 2 instances of accidental discharges when the trigger finger pressing the release lever maintained tension during the draw and closed on the trigger.

    DeSantis makes a kydex holster with a thumb-activated release called the Redi-Lok. Has anyone seen one of these?

  6. #20
    Member Array DblTap's Avatar
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    There are times and places I know I can't CC so I have to go OPEN
    The thing about NC gun laws is that CC statutes are easier to understand than OC law.

    I've settled on a Galco cop 3-slot belt holster with a thumb break worn with jacket for my full size M&P40 until I can find a IWB (strong side or small of back) that allows me to tuck a dress shirt in.

  7. #21
    Member Array spooter66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    I have not yet OCed, but if I decided to do so, I would choose to acquire a holster with some kind of retention device.

    I was thinking Serpa also, obviously a popular model. I recently came across a report of a gunfighting force-on-force school which prohibits the use of Serpas because of 2 instances of accidental discharges when the trigger finger pressing the release lever maintained tension during the draw and closed on the trigger.

    DeSantis makes a kydex holster with a thumb-activated release called the Redi-Lok. Has anyone seen one of these?
    Check out the Safariland models with ALS. The releases are thumb operated.
    "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals." - Sir Winston Churchill


  8. #22
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    I really dislike the Serpa. I know they are terribly popular, but the fact that your trigger finger has to convulse to draw the weapon bothers me. So the retention holster in my rotation is a simple thumb break design.

    Of course, as I've said in other threads- open carry is something I believe one should only do if they have been trained and practice weapon retention through true force on force encounters. It really is easier to disarm someone than you might believe. I also will never use kydex OWB in an open carry situation, I've just seen too many of them fail. YMMV
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  9. #23
    VIP Member Array JAT40's Avatar
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    Open top retention I would think is faster on draw than a thumb snap. One less move and one less thing to go wrong in a SHTF situation.
    While people are saying "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, ... and they will not escape. 1Th 5:3

  10. #24
    Member Array packin45's Avatar
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    I picked up a Safariland level 2 duty holster for my Beretta, which is what I'll be using for open carry. I'm just not willing to take the chance of getting my gun grabbed.
    G17, G26

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil...

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array ron8903's Avatar
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    Another Serpa fan here, Dept approved for Special details.
    "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."
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  12. #26
    Member Array Nelson Muntz's Avatar
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    Most of the time I OC my carry sidearm I use a Galco side snap scabbard with a simple tension adjustment screw and open top. I've never had a problem with it and with proper SA never really worried about it. It is a good looking leather model that fits in well with my manner of dress and behavior and looks quite professional. As a result, I have never been questioned on my carry, as it looks and portrays a 'naturalness'.

    I recently purchased a Level II Serpa which I've begun using on weekends only. I've practiced with this new holster and found I like it quite well for it's durableness, security and ease of use. It really is not difficult to effect a draw and your finger does not have to contort or otherwise perform anything unnatural to release the weapon. Maybe it's just me, but I could not fathom a draw with anything other than a finger alongside the slide anyway, so this release mechanism makes sense to me. I have never found my finger to 'twitch' into the trigger guard on draw as a result of releasing the mechanism, just as I have never had that problem with a simple tension retention holster.

    So, if you have concerns on your level of SA you might be happier and more relieved trying at least a level II holster. If not, go with style and comfort.

  13. #27
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    I won't link to another forum, that is just bad style. But there are reports from at least one professional instructor that say that the Serpa does cause NDs in experienced hands. If it isn't an issue for you, then it looks to be a great design and holster.
    "The only people I like besides my wife and children are Marines."
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  14. #28
    VIP Member Array AZ Husker's Avatar
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    I can easily imagine the scenario...Pressure with the trigger finger required to release the retention, stressful situation over rides the training to keep the finger straight, and the already tight finger follows the path into the trigger guard with the draw. Upward motion naturally pulls the finger into the path of...
    Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse.

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Husker View Post
    I can easily imagine the scenario...Pressure with the trigger finger required to release the retention, stressful situation over rides the training to keep the finger straight, and the already tight finger follows the path into the trigger guard with the draw. Upward motion naturally pulls the finger into the path of...
    It's logical, until you use one.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  16. #30
    Senior Member Array Al Lowe's Avatar
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    Well, I use a Galco thumb snap model for my Taurus PT92AFS, and it just so happens, it fits my EAA fullsize Witness also.

    But for the Walther P38, I had to get one of those Bianchi cloth type holsters. For some strange reason, Blackhawk doesn't make a SERPA to fit the P38. Imagine that.

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