Retention - Page 3

Retention

This is a discussion on Retention within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Echo_Four I won't link to another forum, that is just bad style. But there are reports from at least one professional instructor ...

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  1. #31
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo_Four View Post
    I won't link to another forum, that is just bad style. But there are reports from at least one professional instructor that say that the Serpa does cause NDs in experienced hands. If it isn't an issue for you, then it looks to be a great design and holster.
    I have read the same reports Echo. And I can say one thing about them, those who have had an AD with the SERPA may be experienced, but they are not practiced with the SERPA. You do not have to "convulse" your trigger finger to draw the gun and you must practice with the SEPA to get the draw right. I can see how someone who has not trained enough with the SERPA could have an AD with one, especially while drawing a Glock, but with enough training with it, you do not have anything to worry about.

    And for the member who thinks that the SERPA is not durable, as I have detailed before, I have seen someone lifted off their feet by the grip of a holstered Blue Gun Glock in a SERPA. The holster did not let go of the gun, it did not break, it did not warp. And this was a SERPA with the paddle attachment in place, not the belt loop attachment. Thet are much more durable than leather.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Array jualdeaux's Avatar
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    I have used the SERPA for quite some time. The only problem that i have ever had with it was right after I got it. I used it in an IDPA match when I had to start seated on one stage. I had a small fight in my brain to get my finger to depress the button. The next stage, and there after, I have had no problems with it.

    They have a newer design, the one for the M&P series, that is even better for placing your finger just where it is supposed to be along the side of the frame.
    Bend the knees, smooth is fast, watch the front sight.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by TN_Mike View Post
    I do not like thumb straps. Just my personal opinion. But, they are kind of "universal", in that they have been shown in movies and TV so much that just about any dirt bag knows how to operate a thumb strap.

    I open carry very regularly here in Southwest Tennessee (Shelby County/Memphis) and I use the same holster for open carry or concealed carry. A Blackhawk CQB SERPA.


    I use the paddle attachment instead of the belt attachment that also comes with the holster as I think the paddle is more stable on the hip. And it is, in my opinion, more securely attached to the belt than the belt slot attachment because of the design of the hooks that hold onto the belt. You have to hear it to really understand. I have seen in a training class a person picked up off their feet by the instructor pulling up on the "blue gun" Glock that was holstered in a SERPA on their right hip in the paddle attachment configuration. It isn't going to come off the belt, no need to worry.
    So, do I assume that you like the Blackhawk CQC Serpa? Just kidding. I just bought one for my G23. I have not used it yet. Do you have any problems with concealed carry with the holster?

  4. #34
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    I do not have any real problem concealing with the SERPA. It conceals just about as well as most holsters although it wasn't reallt designed for concealed carry. But if you attach the belt slots or paddle attachment so the gun is held at an angle, or "cant" then it conceals pretty well.

    When I CCW with the SERPA, I wear a loose untucked T-shirt and it haides it quite well. I wear a size medium T-shirt normally so I wear a large when I conceal with the SERPA.

    Yes, I like the SERPA, I have one for every carry gun I own.
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  5. #35
    Member Array packin45's Avatar
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    My level 3 duty holster showed up the other day, and I've been working with it here and there. At first, I thought there was going to be no way I could use it, because I just couldn't seem to draw the gun. But after I played around wiith the adjustments, and spent a few hours working on the draw technique, I have gotten to the point where I have a reasonably smooth presentation.

    The gun can't be removed from the holster by pulling straight up; it has to be pushed down and forward, which disengages the trigger guard lock, before it can be drawn. There is also a thumb break, which doesn't bother me since I used one when I began carrying. Even with the small amount of practice I've put into it, the draw is only slightly slower than with my open top concealment holster.

    I'll put some more practice in with it, then get out to the range with it for some actual draw to fire practice. But as it is now, I like it, and I don't plan to do much OCing without this style of holster.
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  6. #36
    Member Array zebra's Avatar
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    I also OC with a Blackhawk Serpa for my 1911.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Array AZ Desertrat's Avatar
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    I open carry in an IWB.
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  8. #38
    Member Array starshooter231's Avatar
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    I use either an IWB with no retention or an OWB with thumb strap when I OC.
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  9. #39
    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    For those of us that Open Carry, I do very infrequently and I think the last time was about five years ago, do you use some form of retention on your holster?

    For Open Carry the minimum for me is a Thumb Snap, and I prefer a Level III Duty Holster.

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    I have a Blackhawk Serpa holster with a thumb snap. You could hang me upside down by the holster and it would not budge, yet I can draw quickly with it.

  10. #40
    Member Array Rusty Bouquett's Avatar
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    This design concerns me. It appears to me that just about anybody could walk up behind the OC carrier and push in the button and remove the gun. Maybe there's more to it than I understand but it just seems very vulnerable to me.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Bouquett View Post


    This design concerns me. It appears to me that just about anybody could walk up behind the OC carrier and push in the button and remove the gun. Maybe there's more to it than I understand but it just seems very vulnerable to me.
    It's not quite that easy, it still needs to be drawn out at the appropriate angle, in this case straight up, and that's not as easy to do from behind someone. I'd be more worried about the holster breaking (I don't know how tough this holster is, but given enough force it could happen) before someone actually getting it free from behind, as soon as one feels any movement back there one should take appropriate action, that being stomping the heck out of whoever is trying to make the grab.

  12. #42
    Member Array VtCO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Bouquett View Post


    This design concerns me. It appears to me that just about anybody could walk up behind the OC carrier and push in the button and remove the gun. Maybe there's more to it than I understand but it just seems very vulnerable to me.
    If that's your concern, then anyone could walk up behind someone with a thumbbreak holster and pop the break and remove the weapon.

    It doesn't happen.

    It actually takes some skill to press the lever and draw the weapon at the same time and like others said, you have to draw it straight up to get the internal retention to release nicely.

  13. #43
    Member Array Rusty Bouquett's Avatar
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    I see, there IS more to it than I understand!!

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by VtCO View Post
    If that's your concern, then anyone could walk up behind someone with a thumbbreak holster and pop the break and remove the weapon.

    It doesn't happen.
    That statement doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, and I don't mean that in a disrespectful way.

    Most of us who carry will likely never need to use our weapons in a SD situation. We go through the hassle of carrying anyway, to be prepared for the very slim possibility that we'll actually need to defend ourselves. So why not use the same logic when choosing a holster for OC? Why not be prepared for the very slim possibility that someone might try to steal your weapon from you?

    Another reason I decided to go with a retention holster for OC is I feel us permit holders have a special responsibility (think sheepdog) to keep our weapons out of the hands of criminals. If someone swipes my Glock 21 out of my open top holster, it ain't gonna be used for anything good.

    Still another reason: what do you think will happen to our right to OC if one of us gets their gun grabbed? All it's really going to take is one messy incident, and that right will be taken from us so fast that our collective heads will spin.
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  15. #45
    Member Array VtCO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packin45 View Post
    That statement doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, and I don't mean that in a disrespectful way.

    Most of us who carry will likely never need to use our weapons in a SD situation. We go through the hassle of carrying anyway, to be prepared for the very slim possibility that we'll actually need to defend ourselves. So why not use the same logic when choosing a holster for OC? Why not be prepared for the very slim possibility that someone might try to steal your weapon from you?

    Another reason I decided to go with a retention holster for OC is I feel us permit holders have a special responsibility (think sheepdog) to keep our weapons out of the hands of criminals. If someone swipes my Glock 21 out of my open top holster, it ain't gonna be used for anything good.

    Still another reason: what do you think will happen to our right to OC if one of us gets their gun grabbed? All it's really going to take is one messy incident, and that right will be taken from us so fast that our collective heads will spin.
    That was in reference to the SERPA holster, not just an open top, no retention holster.

    In reference though to the whole gun grab situation, I think I can say with some authority that BG's do not think "I'm gonna go mug that guy over there, oh wait, I don't have a gun. Nevermind he's got one, I'll just slip over there and take his gun and then use against him." It's true that the vast majority of criminals commit crimes of opportunity, but grabbing someones gun and using against them is too much of a stretch.

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