Retention - Page 4

Retention

This is a discussion on Retention within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The thing with the SERPA is it looks like a non-retention open top holster. If someone is gonna swipe it they aren't going to sit ...

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Thread: Retention

  1. #46
    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
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    The thing with the SERPA is it looks like a non-retention open top holster. If someone is gonna swipe it they aren't going to sit there and inspect you to see what kind of retention it has. They'll just come up behind you and grab it. With a SERPA and even some non-retention holsters a backwards pull will not release the gun. If they are inspecting you, you aren't paying attention to your surroundings and shouldn't be OCing. When I do OC I feel every eyeball on me. The remote chance that a criminal would steel my gun AND know how to operate a SERPA quickly I'm sure is slim to nil.


  2. #47
    Member Array packin45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VtCO View Post
    That was in reference to the SERPA holster, not just an open top, no retention holster.

    In reference though to the whole gun grab situation, I think I can say with some authority that BG's do not think "I'm gonna go mug that guy over there, oh wait, I don't have a gun. Nevermind he's got one, I'll just slip over there and take his gun and then use against him." It's true that the vast majority of criminals commit crimes of opportunity, but grabbing someones gun and using against them is too much of a stretch.
    I read a news story, not long ago, about a criminal who murdered a LEO for his service weapon. The BG had apparently cruised around until he found an opportunity, then somehow got the LEO's gun from him, and put a few rounds in his head for his trouble.

    Just because we haven't seen a lot of this sort of thing yet, doesn't mean it's too much of a stretch to actually happen.
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  3. #48
    Member Array Nelson Muntz's Avatar
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    Cite Please

    Packin', can you provide a link to the article please?

  4. #49
    Member Array VtCO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packin45 View Post
    I read a news story, not long ago, about a criminal who murdered a LEO for his service weapon. The BG had apparently cruised around until he found an opportunity, then somehow got the LEO's gun from him, and put a few rounds in his head for his trouble.

    Just because we haven't seen a lot of this sort of thing yet, doesn't mean it's too much of a stretch to actually happen.
    But we're not uniformed LEO's. People don't hate us just because of what we are (unless you consider people like the Brady Bunch and then I doubt they want to kill us).

    I want to see one instance where a civilian was killed with their own weapon where the weapon was taken without warning or provocation.

    Cops don't count, even off duty plainclothes ones. Lots of people still know they are cops.

    Besides, it's extremely dangerous for a BG to cruise around hoping to steal someones gun and use it against them (even a cop). If your plan is to kill someone (be they civilian or cop) it's much easier to bring your own gun to the fight instead of relying upon your ability to get theirs without getting shot and then shoot them.

  5. #50
    VIP Member Array AZ Husker's Avatar
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    I think folks here are watching way too many movies. The bad guy always takes the easiest target. If you are in an open carry state, watch what people do when they notice an OC person. They move away. If you're worrying about a serious felon doing you harm, don't worry about being disarmed. He already has his own.
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  6. #51
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    I'd be more worried about the holster breaking (I don't know how tough this holster is, but given enough force it could happen
    JD, of all the holsters I own, all of the SERPA holsters are the only ones I do not worry about breaking in any way. They are, with out any doubt, the toughest holsters I have EVER used.

    As I have related before, I once saw a person picked up off their feet by the grip of a blue gun Glock that was firmly holstered in a SERPA. And the SERPA was in the paddle configuration, not the belt slot configuration. The training gun did not come free, even after repeatedly being "jerked" on.

    I would be afraid of my belt breaking before my SERPA did.
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  7. #52
    JD
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    That's what I've head, I'm thinking I need to pick one up and have Chooie try and toss me around by my blue gun and see if we can beat the thing into breaking. We've got a video camera now, might make for a good thread...

  8. #53
    Member Array VtCO's Avatar
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    And to harp on the BG getting your gun if your OCing (with or without retention, especially without). Most, if not all, of the arguments against seem very reminiscant of the arguments that the anti-gun groups use as reasons to not own a gun.

  9. #54
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by VtCO View Post
    And to harp on the BG getting your gun if your OCing (with or without retention, especially without). Most, if not all, of the arguments against seem very reminiscant of the arguments that the anti-gun groups use as reasons to not own a gun.
    True, but I also remember a time when one would have been laughed at for suggesting that terrorists would fly a plane into a building. I remember reading "Debt of Honor" well before Sep. 11th (1994) and guess what they tried to do? Fly a plane into a building, when I brought up the hypothetical I was laughed at because "That could never happen"

    My whole deal on this has always been that while it hasn't happened yet, it could happen, and one should not negate the possibility only on the basis that it hasn't happened yet.

    I agree that it is unlikely, but so is needing a gun in the first place.

  10. #55
    Member Array VtCO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    True, but I also remember a time when one would have been laughed at for suggesting that terrorists would fly a plane into a building. I remember reading "Debt of Honor" well before Sep. 11th (1994) and guess what they tried to do? Fly a plane into a building, when I brought up the hypothetical I was laughed at because "That could never happen"

    My whole deal on this has always been that while it hasn't happened yet, it could happen, and one should not negate the possibility only on the basis that it hasn't happened yet.

    I agree that it is unlikely, but so is needing a gun in the first place.
    Excellant point, and I felt bad for posting what I posted when I was posting it but couldn't stop. (did that make sense?).

    I suppose it's possible that you'll come across that crazy guy or junkie who's fried his brain and thinks grabbing your gun is a good idea.

    Lots of times I go out I feel a little vulnerable carrying in an open top no retention holster. But not for that reason. I'm worried I'll run into someone who thinks it's a bad idea to carry that way. :(

  11. #56
    Member Array gotammo's Avatar
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    A holster is only a convenient way to carry a gun if you can get it out so can someone else wear what you got. Retention comes in when someone tries to take it, what you do at that point is what will keep you in possession of your gun.

  12. #57
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Back in my patch wearing days, I used to carry a 5 D-cell maglite on my right hip. Many have tried, and only 2 people succeed in pulling it, the first was a 20 something kid in a bathroom at a night club while I was washing my hands ( I stopped a millisecond from burying my fist into his face due to the "deer in headlights" look on his face) and the second my assistant manager where I worked (I was on my own time in the bank - who also almost got the fist/face thing). Both are long stories. My SA was not quite as good as it should have been, but my reflexes were #1 perfect, neither would have had a chance to use it against me if it was their intent.

    Now I am older, I don't move quite as fast any more, and I certainly am carrying a tool that can inflict a lot more damage with less effort.

    The plus side is that even though my OWB holster is open top (and I will have to test this theory) and is not specifically made for my weapon (I had to choose an off brand) I believe the weapon will have to move in a specific direction to exit, and any movement other than required will bind it up. I have an uncommon safety so that will give me a little more time to engage H2H if someone succeeds in relieving me of my weapon.

    I am pleasantly reminded at least once a day that I still have deceptive advantages. I perform a task that someone that appears bigger and stronger than I am cannot, I tell them "Your Kung-Fu is not strong". Age and abuse has not taken everything from me yet.
    Sticks

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    See also Sheep

  13. #58
    Member Array Evil One's Avatar
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    My wheelgun rides in a Galco Silhouette with thumb break.
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  14. #59
    VIP Member Array NCHornet's Avatar
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    For those that like the Serpa line of holsters, but prefer leather, I suggest looking at the Bianchi Carry Loc series. My favorite holster for my G23.

    NCH
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    Carry On!
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  15. #60
    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    It is the job of the person to retain the firearm, not the holster. You need to think about retention in and out of the holster. Everyone should get with a training partner and fight for 10 seconds trying to retain their pistol in and out of the holster. It may be an eye opener.

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