New article on the soccer mom in PA...

This is a discussion on New article on the soccer mom in PA... within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I admire this Lady! That took guts to do what she has done....

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Thread: New article on the soccer mom in PA...

  1. #46
    Senior Member Array preachertim's Avatar
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    I admire this Lady! That took guts to do what she has done.
    Why Would A Preacher ever need a Gun? Its Not for the Sheep , its for the Wolves!

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  3. #47
    New Member Array khicks's Avatar
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    there is a lot going on to the whole story that did not show up in the news paper article. first Mis Hain has been carrying to her kids soccer practice and to the games for some time, and this is the first time that some one complained. second some one call Mr Hains boss and asked if they knew that Miss Hain was carrying openly.

  4. #48
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khicks View Post
    second some one call Mr Hains boss and asked if they knew that Miss Hain was carrying openly.
    Does her place of business have anything to do with carrying on her own time in protection of her family, openly or otherwise?
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  5. #49
    Ex Member Array jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Does her place of business have anything to do with carrying on her own time in protection of her family, openly or otherwise?
    she runs, or used to run, a daycare out of her home. because of of all this nonsense, people have pulled their kids out, effectively killing her business. they didn't want their kids in her home, leaving them vulnerable to her semiautomatic child killing assault pistol. you know, the Glock 26.

  6. #50
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    She should cover it. All any BG would have to do is grab her from behind and take her own pistol.

    All she is doing is putting a bulls eye on carrying a pistol. You let enough anti gun people scream, they will be passing new laws on carrying them and when it starts in one state it has a ripple effect. The media just loves stories like this, I can see her on Oprah now.

    Someone should introduce her to a IWB or a fanny pack, but I think she just likes the attention or the look on peoples faces when they see her with a baby and a pistol.

    This woman is not doing anything to protect your rights, she is hurting them.

  7. #51
    Ex Member Array jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redrick View Post
    She should cover it. All any BG would have to do is grab her from behind and take her own pistol.

    All she is doing is putting a bulls eye on carrying a pistol. You let enough anti gun people scream, they will be passing new laws on carrying them and when it starts in one state it has a ripple effect. The media just loves stories like this, I can see her on Oprah now.

    Someone should introduce her to a IWB or a fanny pack, but I think she just likes the attention or the look on peoples faces when they see her with a baby and a pistol.

    This woman is not doing anything to protect your rights, she is hurting them.
    *yawn

    thi is the kind of stuff nobody asked about, or needed in this thread.
    Last edited by jahwarrior72; January 3rd, 2009 at 03:14 PM.

  8. #52
    VIP Member Array cvhoss's Avatar
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    In the article, she only said one thing that I tend to disagree with and it is not about her right to carry a firearm but more the about the discussion of OC vs. CC.
    She carries the weapon cowboy-style because in an emergency - not that there has ever been one - "I don't really need anything extra in the way of the gun if I'm going to have to pull it out and I'm holding a baby and trying to shuttle two or three other kids," she said.
    It is MY OPINION ONLY that the advantage of quick access to an OC firearm is, IN MOST SITUATIONS, negated by the covert aspect of a CC firearm. I feel that the one thing an OC firearm says to the BG contemplating doing you harm is that he has to neutralize you immediately. The tactical surprise of a CC firearm that the BG is not immediately aware of, at least in my belief, is a greater advantage than immediate access.

    And again, none of this negates her right to carry a firearm in the manner in which she chose. Only that I happen to have a difference of opinion on the best carry method.

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  9. #53
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    Should people be allowed to carry guns around children?
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  10. #54
    Member Array Rusty Bouquett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cvhoss View Post
    I feel that the one thing an OC firearm says to the BG contemplating doing you harm is that he has to neutralize you immediately. Hoss
    This has been batted around ad nausium. There's no evidence to support this as a common occurance. It's a bogey man story. Criminals shy AWAY from LAC's pack'n heat.

  11. #55
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    "Originally Posted by cvhoss
    I feel that the one thing an OC firearm says to the BG contemplating doing you harm is that he has to neutralize you immediately." Hoss

    But its her choice and I see no reason to take that choice away from her. Many folks probably dont like something I do either.

    Michael

  12. #56
    VIP Member Array cvhoss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    "Originally Posted by cvhoss
    I feel that the one thing an OC firearm says to the BG contemplating doing you harm is that he has to neutralize you immediately." Hoss

    But its her choice and I see no reason to take that choice away from her. Many folks probably dont like something I do either.

    Michael
    and that's why I wrote:
    And again, none of this negates her right to carry a firearm in the manner in which she chose. Only that I happen to have a difference of opinion on the best carry method.
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  13. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatcat View Post
    What makes carrying open supposed more dangerous then carrying concealed?
    One of the things I find so bizarre about the whole OC vs CC issue is that no so long ago. It was those that carried concealed that were looked askew. Those that carried concealed were considered dishonorable deceitful sneaky cowards. That is why most states do not have any laws regulating OC. It was thought that those that CC were the ones that needed to be monitored. After all honorable men did not need to hide their guns and have the ability to draw a deadly weapon without warning. No one questioned anyone carrying a gun, just why anyone would need to be sneaky and hide it.

    Now those that OC are the ones who are supposed to have issues. Even those that carry concealed often denigrate those that OC. Weird.

    As we know method of carry is irrelevant as far as how dangerous a gun is. The fact is that a gun is an inanimate object that is involved in less deaths and injuries than cars. Difference of course is that guns do so most often in order to save life or property.

    I am glad this lady is standing up for her and all of our civil rights. I am glad she is helping educate the public and generating a forum for others educate the ignorant. Most of all I am glad she is standing up for her right to live and protect the lives and well being of her children. Something that all of her critics are unwilling to do.

    Amazing that her biggest critics are mothers and fathers who care so little for their children that they will not do what is needed to protect the their children from the danger and violence we all know exists.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

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  14. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by cvhoss View Post
    I feel that the one thing an OC firearm says to the BG contemplating doing you harm is that he has to neutralize you immediately.
    One of the great things about Defensive Carry is we as a group were able to do a bit of research on that. For months on the Carry Concerns thread members researched and looked to see if we could find any instances of that happening. The result was that after months not one single instance was found and there were members who really wanted to prove that it had. The the best of our combined efforts concluded it has NEVER EVER happened nor once not ever. So my conclusion is that it is a myth without any foundation in fact. Still it could happen, a piece of a satellite could fall out of the sky and hit me in the head, but I don't worry about either
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  15. #59
    VIP Member Array cvhoss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    One of the great things about Defensive Carry is we as a group were able to do a bit of research on that. For months on the Carry Concerns thread members researched and looked to see if we could find any instances of that happening. The result was that after months not one single instance was found and there were members who really wanted to prove that it had. The the best of our combined efforts concluded it has NEVER EVER happened nor once not ever. So my conclusion is that it is a myth without any foundation in fact. Still it could happen, a piece of a satellite could fall out of the sky and hit me in the head, but I don't worry about either
    It comes down to that I'm not looking for proof. I'm not asking anyone to justify to me why they choose to open carry. I'm saying why I don't. I think my reasons have some validity. If you or anyone else doesn't, that's your prerogative. Maybe it comes from 30 years of looking at business contracts and trying to figure out how someone can take advantage of me if I sign. In the OC/CC choice, I try to put myself in the position of a criminal and imagine what would make me a target. On the one hand, a BG looking for a quick mark so he can buy his next fix may very well back away and not choose me if I'm open carrying. On the other hand, 3 or 4 gangbangers with one gun between them may decide that here's one for the taking. Or if I happen to be inside the bank when the BGs come in to rob it, I'm immediately marked as a target just like an armed guard. How many times have you seen on this web site people saying that they won't have any NRA or other gun related stickers on their vehicle as it "marks" them as a target for anyone looking for a gun. What could mark you more than open carrying? Anyone looking to score some guns knows from your OCing that if they follow you to your residence, there's at least one gun in there and probably more.

    How often have we discussed in this forum keeping the fact that you CC to yourself. One of our members just had a long and well thought out post about the lengths he went to to prevent a Home Depot employee from discovering he was carrying. Why? Because when we're CCing, we look no different than every other Joe on the street. Most people don't take a second look at us. We alarm no one and no one whips out their cell phone to place a "man with a gun" 911 call.

    I don't believe that you can make an argument against the tactical advantage of CC. It's one of the arguments supporting CC in states that have passed shall issue laws and why there is usually a reduction in violent crime after those laws are passed in that the BGs no longer know who is armed and who isn't even though a very small percentage of the population may actually have a license.

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  16. #60
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cvhoss View Post
    It comes down to that I'm not looking for proof. I'm not asking anyone to justify to me why they choose to open carry. I'm saying why I don't. I think my reasons have some validity. If you or anyone else doesn't, that's your prerogative.
    Agreed, I responded to what appeared to be statements of fact and pass on some evidence that the concerns you expressed like the hypotheticals you expressed in this post are not fact. They are what ifs that simply do not occur. I like to base my decisions on facts not what ifs. Along with my life experience. I only owned my business for eleven years so I do not have thirty years of experience with contracts. I do however have nearly forty years experience riding with 1% outlaws and the law abiding that pack. Everyone is free to base their decisions on whatever criteria they wish. For two of the best statements of why they open carry see Tubby45 post on Open Carry - What do you think?
    and LimaTunes post on the Open Carry Concerns Thread
    Back on topic as This is not a place to debate the virtues of open vs concealed carry. I do appreciate your position that regardless of your personal choices and method of carry that you respect Soccer Moms right to bear arms as she sees fit. That is really the most important thing IMO. The anti self defense fanatic are all untied in their efforts to ban all guns we need not be divided into camps of only my hunting SD OC or CC guns are OK. The right to carry is absolute. What we carry and how we carry are personal choices we should all be able to respect
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

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