Another GA OC incident

This is a discussion on Another GA OC incident within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The War on Guns: Where's the Reasonable Suspicion of a Crime? Friday, December 19, 2008 Where's the Reasonable Suspicion of a Crime? From Ed Stone: ...

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Thread: Another GA OC incident

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array rmodel65's Avatar
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    Another GA OC incident

    The War on Guns: Where's the Reasonable Suspicion of a Crime?







    Friday, December 19, 2008
    Where's the Reasonable Suspicion of a Crime?
    From Ed Stone:

    David,

    Please read this police report about an arrest of a person openly carrying a pistol for obstruction for refusing to identify himself and tell me what reasonable suspicion of a crime existing to detain this man and force him to identify himself.

    This is not an incident I have previously reported to you, as it just happened. This is the same jurisdiction I wrote this letter and with which we have had other issues. Think they have it out for our members?

    http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...IMG_0001-1.jpg

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    What is in the water down there?

    ED
    Last edited by rmodel65; December 19th, 2008 at 01:36 PM.
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  3. #2
    Member Array stickybeatz's Avatar
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    I know in Arizona, you're required to present ID when requested by a police officer. This guy deserved to get arrested, imo
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    After reading the arrest report it sounds as if he was intending to get arrested. Correct me if I am wrong but isn’t a federal requirement to produce ID if requested by LEO?
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    VIP Member Array JAT40's Avatar
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    I personally don't think this guy is helpful to our cause.
    While people are saying "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, ... and they will not escape. 1Th 5:3

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    Senior Member Array mzmtg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stickybeatz View Post
    This guy deserved to get arrested, imo
    For what, for standing up for his rights?

    In GA, one is NOT required to produce any kind of ID upon any random request from any random cop.

    The guy was not breaking any laws, was not suspected of breaking any laws, and was therefore not obligated to identify himself.

    "Hey, you've got a gun, lemme see some ID!" doesn't cut it around here.

    Quote Originally Posted by msgt/ret View Post
    Correct me if I am wrong but isn’t a federal requirement to produce ID if requested by LEO?
    You are wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAT40 View Post
    I personally don't think this guy is helpful to our cause.

    The cause of liberty takes many forms.

    Being free from "Papers, please" type harassment is an important part of personal liberty.

    This guy was actually trying to comply with the wishes of a private property owner when he was accosted by the police. It seems to me he was TRYING to be helpful to our cause when he was interfered with.
    Last edited by JD; January 28th, 2009 at 06:27 AM. Reason: Merged posts
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    Member Array stickybeatz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzmtg View Post
    For what, for standing up for his rights?

    In GA, one is NOT required to produce any kind of ID upon any random request from any random cop.

    The guy was not breaking any laws, was not suspected of breaking any laws, and was therefore not obligated to identify himself.

    "Hey, you've got a gun, lemme see some ID!" doesn't cut it around here.
    He was trying to enter a mall that had a no weapons rule.. It seems pretty fair that he was asked for ID to me... but I'm not from GA so I don't really know. carry on

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    Senior Member Array mzmtg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stickybeatz View Post
    He was trying to enter a mall that had a no weapons rule.. It seems pretty fair that he was asked for ID to me... but I'm not from GA so I don't really know. carry on
    Entering the mall armed is/was not against the law. He was in the process of following the direction of mall security (trying to be a nice guy and putting his gun pack in his car) when the police rolled up on him in the parking lot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mzmtg View Post
    Entering the mall armed is/was not against the law. He was in the process of following the direction of mall security (trying to be a nice guy and putting his gun pack in his car) when the police rolled up on him in the parking lot.
    I re-read the report to see if I had misinterpreted it, but I'm still not seeing where he was attempting to follow the direction of mall security. Now granted, not all police reports are accurate and/or truthful, but if the report is the only means of deciphering the story, it still sounds like a good call on the officers to me.

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    Senior Member Array mzmtg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stickybeatz View Post
    I re-read the report to see if I had misinterpreted it, but I'm still not seeing where he was attempting to follow the direction of mall security. Now granted, not all police reports are accurate and/or truthful, but if the report is the only means of deciphering the story, it still sounds like a good call on the officers to me.
    The info about mall security is from posts about the incident on GPDO. I'm sure all of those details will be included when the 4th Amendment case is filed against the officers and the department.

    I still don't see how you can think the officers made the right call when they had no legal grounds to demand that he identify himself in the first place.

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    mzmtg, you seem to be very passionate about this incident. Not being from Ga. it's hard to completely understand your perspective on this, please shed some light. I believe in most states one must comply with an ID request. Thanks.
    While people are saying "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, ... and they will not escape. 1Th 5:3

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    Quote Originally Posted by stickybeatz View Post
    I re-read the report to see if I had misinterpreted it, but I'm still not seeing where he was attempting to follow the direction of mall security. Now granted, not all police reports are accurate and/or truthful, but if the report is the only means of deciphering the story, it still sounds like a good call on the officers to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by p2¶4
    [Ofc Scott] advised Mr Belt that if he could show his ID he would be allowed to leave or go where he wanted.
    It sounds like he was attempting to leave to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAT40 View Post
    I believe in most states one must comply with an ID request. Thanks.
    We have this wonderful thing called Amendment IV to the Constitution. One may be required to name himself and give his information if legitimately detained for some sort of investigation. Are police allowed to stop everyone that is driving because he might not have a driver license? No. Do you stop everyone that simply has a pistol because he might not have a handgun license? No.
    Last edited by JD; January 28th, 2009 at 06:29 AM. Reason: merged posts
    The preceding post may contain sarcasm; it's just better that way. However, it is still intended with construction and with the Love of my L-rd Y'shua.

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    Member Array stickybeatz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agave View Post
    We have this wonderful thing called Amendment IV to the Constitution. One may be required to name himself and give his information if legitimately detained for some sort of investigation. Are police allowed to stop everyone that is driving because he might not have a driver license? No. Do you stop everyone that simply has a pistol because he might not have a handgun license? No.
    No, but you probably should stop somebody who has a gun who is trying to enter a building that doesn't allow weapons, at which point asking for ID is justified

  14. #13
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    The cops responded to a man with a gun.

    They have the right to ask for identification based on responding to a call of man with a gun.

    They didn't randomly detain or stop him on a public way for no reason, they were called to the scene and have every right to ask the man to identify himself in the course of their investigation.

    It's called a field inquiry, totally legal.

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    Distinguished Member Array Agave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stickybeatz View Post
    No, but you probably should stop somebody who has a gun who is trying to enter a building that doesn't allow weapons, at which point asking for ID is justified
    Owner/operator/agent can turn anyone away for virtually any reason. Turning someone away does not give them privilege to require ID.

    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    The cops responded to a man with a gun.

    They have the right to ask for identification based on responding to a call of man with a gun.

    They didn't randomly detain or stop him on a public way for no reason, they were called to the scene and have every right to ask the man to identify himself in the course of their investigation.

    It's called a field inquiry, totally legal.
    The report doesn't say that he refused to identify himself. It says that he refused to show a tangible piece of ID.

    Either way "a man with a gun" is not a crime any more than "a man with a car." What were they investigating?

    Say that there were an actual crime reported, Mr Belt was not charged with that crime, nor does this report mention any crime other than obstructing. Hell, they didn't even seize the weapon.

    The only crime this guy committed was the Hi-Point.
    The preceding post may contain sarcasm; it's just better that way. However, it is still intended with construction and with the Love of my L-rd Y'shua.

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  16. #15
    Senior Member Array rmodel65's Avatar
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    trust me the cops knew exactly who he was, this is on going in glynn county. In fact to the point he was fired from a job :( the gun was my old high point :P and there is no stop and identify yourself statue. closest thing we have-->>
    O.C.G.A. § 16-11-36 (2008) http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_th...aw_for_Georgia
    § 16-11-36. Loitering or prowling

    If you take another second and read the letter sent by GCO previously it explains why a man with a gun doesnt give rise to be able to stop someone.
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