Open Carry, Police, and ID
This is a discussion on Open Carry, Police, and ID within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I've been reading another thread where members are discussing the legality of not showing ID to a police officer when requested. I've also read of ...
January 4th, 2009 01:56 AM
Open Carry, Police, and ID
I've been reading another thread where members are discussing the legality of not showing ID to a police officer when requested. I've also read of the practice in PA of "sterile carry".
This is the practice of carrying a firearm openly (legal without a license in PA) while on foot without any state issued ID on their person.
I'm curious what LE would do when the person they just asked for ID from says, "I'm XXXXX XXXXX, and I don't have any ID on me."
January 4th, 2009 07:39 AM
I don't think I'm going to run the risk of finding out what they would do. IMHO i would rather cooperate with the police. I understand and agree with the viewpoint "you shouldn't say anything without a lawyer present" but you not being questioned on murder (yet)
You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. From what i understand (and i could be wrong) you don't have to produce for ID just because your asked. However not producing it could be looked at as being evasive and then they REALLY might wanna talk to you.
Because i can't apply for my CCW yet (only 19) i plan to OC till i can, roughly 463days till i can apply (Apr. 12 2010) and i plan to keep my ID with me at all times.
"Dead is dead"
"Yea, till we show up with jumper cables and drugs to debate it"
January 4th, 2009 08:45 AM
Well first off, you should always carry some form of identification. With that said, why would anyone who is a law abiding citizen refuse to show LE an ID? IMO, you're only asking for trouble in this case.
In Utah, you can open carry legally without a permit as long as the weapon is completely unloaded .. or .. atleast 2 actions away from firing. Utah LE is acustomed to the citizen's carrying concealed with a permit and normally dont hassle you if you are legal.
IMO, if you are carrying a gun, you should carry identification and present it if asked. I think you are asking for trouble if you dont. Carrying a gun without proper ID is a recipe to change your address to the "crossbar hotel".
"Government is not the solution to our problem; government IS the problem". - Ronald Reagan 1981
January 4th, 2009 09:17 AM
Florida does not have any open carry. But regarding showing no ID to an officer: It depends. In some cases, the officer may charge you with "resisting an officer without violence". In jargon, this charge is sometimes referred to as "PoP" (p* off police), and usually dropped on first appearance, but it gets you a night in the jail.
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. (Thomas Jefferson)
January 4th, 2009 09:19 AM
A better question might be; What on earth do you hope to gain by doing so?
Originally Posted by Glock30Owner
January 4th, 2009 09:20 AM
Although I subscribe to the idea of always being coopertive, always having my ID with me etc... I question if this means I support the idea of "Papers Please". About a year ago, a friend of mine here in Portland, Maine was harrassed (he does not carry, or even own a gun). He was witness to a mugging, and gave a statement to the police, but when they asked him for his ID, and he didn't have it, they started treating him like a suspect. Luckily the store clerk confirme he was not the suspect as he was buying a few groceries when they both saw it happen. There was no legal reason requiring him to carry his ID, yet they treated him harshly simply because he didn't have it on him.
So, how far is too far to require someone to produce "papers". Again, I always have mine on me, and have no reason to not produce it, but others may choose to leave it behind for convenience sake.
"Gun Free Zones" is where only criminals carry guns.
January 4th, 2009 12:38 PM
If you are caught carrying, open or concealed, with no ID, you will be detained at least until they figure out who you are! After that you may get a good ass chewing.
January 4th, 2009 12:45 PM
IMO, there is little to gain from doing so, and doesn't seem like a logical way to exercise your rights. Again, there's nothing gained, and you're not making any type of statement or "teaching a lesson" to any LEO.
January 4th, 2009 01:27 PM
If asked for ID, I'll give it....BUT....
If I am NOT breaking any laws, why should I have to ID myself to ANYBODY?
Just because I'm carrying a firearm? So what! If I'm not breaking any laws I should be left ALONE! The mere possession of a firearm doesn't equal 'cause'. If the LEO doesn't have good cause...HE SHOULDN'T ASK.
My problem is it is just another excuse to further limit freedoms & the sheep just go along with it.
Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca
"If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper
January 4th, 2009 01:37 PM
why would someone who is a law abiding citizen be required to show a LEO any ID, if they've done nothing wrong? in PA, cops can't randomly demand your ID. they can ask, but you can refuse; i know, i've done so. unless they have reasonable suspicion, you're under no obligation to even stop and talk to them. as for asking for trouble, i think a LEO who demands you produce 'ze papers' without probable cause is asking for trouble.
Originally Posted by Rcher
January 4th, 2009 01:51 PM
First IANAL, I don't even play one on TV and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night.
I would imagine that each state has different laws regarding this.
In Illinois, you must provide identification to LEO when asked. if you are driving, you must have your DL in your possession.
If you look at this from the LEO view, they have no idea who you are. You know that you are a law abiding honest citizen, that would never lie about who you are. However, LE deals with people every day that are trying to get by with something. They are lied to all the time. There are many people walking around with warrants out for thier arrest. These people will commonly not have any ID on them and will lie about thier names. Commonly, they will provide a brother or sisters name, if they are close in appearance.
In this area, you should plan on being detained until your identity can be verified.
Don't do things you don't want to explain to the Paramedics!
Stupidity should be painful.
January 4th, 2009 01:58 PM
I sure wish people would drop the "papers please" reference which implies that an ID request is the same as Nazis asking for your travel documents. LEOs are not out there to hassle people and find reasons to arrest you, they are out there trying to catch bad guys that are amongst us. They are trying to protect your sorry butt. It's common sense to carry ID and refusing to present it is wasting everyone's time and preventing them from dismissing you and going about on their way....
Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.
January 4th, 2009 02:02 PM
Several states have enacted laws that require an I.D. to be submitted when asked by police. If you refuse or fail to have one when questioned, you are guilty of an infraction.
Before you refuse to show I.D. to an officer, make sure you know where the law stands on this. Otherwise, you might find yourself in the back of police car thinking that you are being falsely arrested when in fact you are not.
Since this thread is about open carry and not showing an I.D. when asked by the Po, I would think that it may be complicating matters not having an I.D.
I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.
AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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January 4th, 2009 02:57 PM
This was a GA issue. Other states may have similar exceptions or omissions in their laws. But my personal opinion is why have a permit/license if you are not going to show it to law enforcement personel? You can take on the law, but it could cost you in more ways than you want to pay. To each their own - but if requested to produce or show - mine is coming out of the wallet.
Originally Posted by Glock30Owner
January 4th, 2009 03:08 PM
Carry some I.D. on your person - If you get hit by a truck...do you want to die a John Doe?
Your tombstone will read:
Here Lies John Doe.
He Might Be You But,
We Don't Know???
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