January 6th, 2009 03:57 PM
Sending a message to the BGs. FL Specific
Please forgive me if this is a silly question or this is the wrong section. I'm new and still trying to learn...
I live in a somewhat rual area of Central Florida.
Our problem is we have a good deal of bored teenagers who have nothing better to do with their nights and no parental supervison what so ever. It starts with beat up mailboxes, but, it occasionally moves to prowling properties at night. I've had vandilism, small theft, and even caught one hiding between the cars in the driveway one night. (one of those moments you don't forget. I wasn't CC, OC, or even close to any protection at the moment.. My fault completely..)
My question is this....I know that it's legal to OC on your own private property..correct? I'm concidering OC when I'm outdoors, mowing, working, etc..vs my usual CC...only to make it completely obvious that I'm armed and willing to use it should they escalate their antics even further. These kids roam the neighborhood constantly, I have little doubt they'd eventually "notice".
However, I'm also concerened with "provoking" as well. Also, would I just be asking for trouble..ie. neighbors, law enforcement...by doing so?
I know the stolen items, destroyed mailboxes, and attempts at hot wiring my riding mower cannot be solved by lethal force... It's the occasional attempt to the doors on the home itself that has me worried. I want to pass a message to them that I will not tolerate any threats to mine and/or my family's safety.
What would you do? We've done everything else possible, lights, motion lights, fences, alarms..etc..by the way. A big dog is on the short list as well. I, like most people I'm sure, would rather PREVENT a scenario than have to participate in one.
January 6th, 2009 04:11 PM
Open carry could be used to deter potential threats to life or property. I don't know the laws regarding OC on your own property in FL. Perhaps you can organize a neighborhood watch within your community, but I don't know how neighborly your area is. Everyone in my neighborhood keeps to themselves, and nothing really goes on here, because just about everyone here is armed. It is only a matter of time before those kids are caught. Even the best of vandals and thieves eventually get caught.
USMC rule # 23 of gunfighting: Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
I am the God fearing, gun toting, flag waving conservative you were warned about!
January 6th, 2009 04:17 PM
I've dealt with a lot of break-ins (I'm non-LE). Sounds like you are a target, and once you get on that list, after everything you have done, leaves you with two reasonable tasks left to do. Neighborhood watch and a dog.
Most of the time people don't do all the things you have done until after the first robbery. Most times it is a progression. First break in they change the locks, purchase a safe, load up a firearm, and sometimes an alarm (sometimes they don't get an alarm until the 2nd time). By the second time they flip out and get the alarm and start considering a move.
All I can say is get the dog. A puppy is nice to have as you get that bond. However, it takes a while before they become the house guardian you might want.
I had a client that had three break-ins. Locks, alarms, watch did not stop the 3rd break in. A friend of hers was moving out of state, and she became the owner of a german shepherd mix. She has not had a problem since.
For extreme cases, a small dog and a large dog make a good two dog team (talking generalizations, every breed is different). The small dog is the alarm and the big dog is the visual deterrent. Side note, sometimes the big dog is all bark and it is the angry little dog that attacks. No matter how you go, if you like dogs, they are worth the dog food alone just for home SD IMO.
I have wired up a few video systems. I'm not sure how much of a deterrent they are. I do know that if it is just vandalism, cameras often become the target of vandalism. I think it gives the vandals a target (maybe as a dare, maybe for a greater rush). Just something I have seen a few times. Often if you have a few hidden cameras, you end up catching the vandals in the act of vandalising the other cameras. I have started using fake cameras in the open and real cameras that are hidden.
I have also sometimes wondered the value of those alarm signs that state protected by so and so on the front lawn. It is like advertising, I have something worth while to take. I do believe in the door / window stickers. By the time the BG is that close, you are already a target.
PS - It could very well be kids being kids, but you are taking the right steps.
January 6th, 2009 04:18 PM
Even if you can OC where you live...I wouldn't if I were you...I mean around your house or property. #1. Your neighbors might not think highly of it or think you're psycho. #2. It tells others you have guns, which may in some way mark you as a target for burglary once the BG's know your schedule and when you leave. #3. You'll be giving away any element of surprise. Open carry all you want to out in public if it's okay to do so in your area.....but not around the house or property IMO.
January 6th, 2009 04:41 PM
I've been told that BG sometimes look for NRA stickers on doors, etc, then target that house because they are looking for firearms. OC / stickers you own guns are hit or miss. As many BG as you may scare off, the more unwanted attention you may attract. This is just skuttle, as I don't know of one situation (beyond 3rd party stories) were something like an NRA stickers was the reason for the break-in.
Originally Posted by Ram Rod
Still, stay armed. Does FLA allow CC on your own property?
January 6th, 2009 04:54 PM
Thank you all for the quick responses.
I honestly, think it's kids being kids. But, that doesn't keep me from feeling threatened at times. These kids are arrogant and feel indestructable. They congregate in the middle of the road and cuss you out while you try to keep from driving into the ditch to get around them since they refuse to move.
It's a neighborhood wide problem. However, getting anyone to speak to each other, much less form any kind of watch group has met with "deer caught in headlights" looks. No one wants to get "involved".
I'm more concerend with the occasional attempt on the doors. I've found pry marks on both my entry doors. My wife has heard them one night on the steps. These ARE country kids in the end. Access to weapons would not be a stretch.
I really am mainly concerned with any future attempts on the home itself. That's the purpose of my OP.
By the way, oh yea...the dog is on the very short To Do List. No puppies. I'll rescue an adult that fits the bill.
Ram Rod, you're right on, that's why I'm asking. While I don't "hang" with my neighbors, I do want to keep on decent terms with them. *however, I'm convinced that one of these brats belongs to one direct neighbor.....as their mailbox seems to avoid regular assult...
By the way, Ram Rod..Dodge man myself....I like the avatar.
January 6th, 2009 04:59 PM
I'm far from an expert on this subject, as I said, I'm still learning. However, as I understand it, Fl does allow some kind of carry on your own personal property with or without a permit. I just don't know how it pertains to CC vs OC.
Don't quote me though. Like I say, while I've obtained my FL CWP, I'm still attempting to get all the legalities down.
That's why I've searched out groups such as this. I'm one of those crazy people who seeks out every shred of information I can get on a subject just for the fun of learning.
January 6th, 2009 07:48 PM
Ok, so, I'm not savy on the legalities of blasting some bonehead trying to hotwire the lawn mower with rubber bullets are beanbags..but, I sure like the idea of it..
Honestly, I agree, we've got the fence...the big mutt is next. We'll probably be making a trip to the local shelter this weekend.
Like I say, the kid pranks and such, I can deal with. It's annoying, wrong, and just plain stupid that we have to live with it. But, in the end, we have to live with it. As been battled out ad nauseum lately 'round here, as much as we WANT to, it's not a wise choice to just go blasting some kid making off with your weedeater.
However, as I said, they do, once in awhile try the doors. THAT'S what's got my nerves going. While it's, again, likely, teenage angst and once they figured out someone was actually home, they'd turn tail and cowardly run home. BUT..it's that one case of the pumped up kid, dude..whatever...who's looking for more than just a prank. It happens every day in this country.
I'm comfortable defending us in that scenario if needed....the purpose of my OP was to inquire about wearing OC while outside on my own property as to sort of "advertise" my ability to defend ourselves.
I'm not saying I would. Honestly, I feel as most of you. Probably just not worth the trouble. Loss of the element of suprise..etc..
Just a thought a buddy and I have been beating around for a couple weeks. I thought I'd get your take on it here.
January 6th, 2009 07:49 PM
I open carry exclusively on my dad's property in central/north FL while outside. It's much more comfortable, completely legal, and there are quite a few big critters up there, it's just nice to have it closer at hand.
I say go for it.
"In God we trust, as for the rest of you... keep your hands where I can see them" - Unknown
January 6th, 2009 08:06 PM
Sorry guys. I should probably go a little into the logic as to why we're pondering this question....
We all know there are firearm enthusiasts out there who are what I call "recreational". Hunters, range shooters..etc.. Some of them, I know a few, while proficient and skilled, do not keep firearms around for SD. I know one fella in particular who keeps all his gear, unloaded and in a giant safe.
What we're trying to figure out is this....just because someone has firearms doesn't mean they are prepared for SD. Is it possible that many of the BG's, potiential BG's, and punks have a perception that there is no risk, even if one has NRA stickers...etc.?
However, someone carrying OC conveys a very stricking image of one that's proficient, ready, and possibly even highly trained to act in SD. Correct or not.
That's why I was asking. Not trying to heat up a debate..like I say, just wanted you all's take on it.
OC on your own property to "advertise" your ability to act in SD? Yes, no, bad idea..etc.?
January 6th, 2009 08:12 PM
Yes, tough situation. Understand your temptation to warn (thus OC). Sometimes kid pranks end with a life altering bullet.
If you think it is just pranks. Have some fun. One customer purchased an old camera lens and put together a flashing LED running off a 9 volt at Radio Shack. Was not a working video. He put it inside the window of his door with a sign that read, "Smile for the Camera."
January 6th, 2009 10:28 PM
Ha, now that's not an entirely bad idea. Actually, I have an old Private Investigator buddy who may just have the ticket for that kind of thing. His specialty is video surveillance.
It's just bored teenagers for the most part. Our little community is about 20 miles from anything resembleing civilization. One c-store, one feed store and that's it. So, there literally isn't squat for these kids to do other than roam the neighborhoods with little to no parental supervision. Criminal mischeif (spelling?) is rampant in our neighborhood. But, we all know how the mob mentality is within a group such as that...It escalates from "Hey, man, let's beat up on mailboxes"..to.."Hey, man, it looks like no one's home..let's take a peek".. in no time.
I doubt they have any violent intentions, however, there have been reported rapes and assults recently. Mostly on other teenagers. But, the concern is still there for all of us adults.
I work in a prison.(not an officer, med staff) So, I see, each and every day, teenagers that went wrong. Teenagers doing adult crimes.
As I said, a buddy and I have been beating this ball around for a couple weeks, wondering if an "advertisement" would have any distinct deterrment or not.
I really appreciate the input.
January 6th, 2009 10:31 PM
At home it's either CC or OC with me. Just depends on what I'm doing at the time and how I'm dressed. Neighbors have no problem with it.
For God, Family and Country!
January 6th, 2009 10:39 PM
Originally Posted by radtek1986
It seems that you know how to deal with them from reading this post. Have you considered talking to any of them? I don't know but maybe that will work in your favor
I hope everything works out for you brother.
Mixed Martial Arts Record= 2-0.......Kyokushin Karate Record=5-0
USMC.....helping enemies of America die for their countries since 1775
January 6th, 2009 10:43 PM
I've never believed in that; I am still waiting for one first hand instance of it happening.
Originally Posted by Thanis
We have NRA and SD stickers on our cars and motorcycles and that led us to countless discussions with strangers, usually starting by: "I like your sticker ..." actually more my wife than me; of course I am not as good-looking .
We "educated" many people on gun rights.
Now, I understand in different places it might be different, that's why I dislike "hard" statements.
The first rule of a gunfight: "Don't be there !"
The second rule: "Bring enough gun"
jfl (NRA Life Member/Instructor - GOA - IDPA - GSSF - ex-IHMSA)
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