Explain me this...

This is a discussion on Explain me this... within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by jamierah I've heard this some where too and from the research I've done it's illegal. This is from Michigan Legislature 4) Except ...

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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamierah View Post
    I've heard this some where too and from the research I've done it's illegal. This is from Michigan Legislature
    4) Except as provided in subsection (5), an individual who possesses a weapon in a weapon free school zone is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by 1 or more of the following:

    (a) Imprisonment for not more than 93 days.

    (b) Community service for not more than 100 hours.

    (c) A fine of not more than $2,000.00.

    (5) Subsection (4) does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) An individual employed by or contracted by a school if the possession of that weapon is to provide security services for the school.

    (b) A peace officer.

    (c) An individual licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.


    (d) An individual who possesses a weapon provided by a school or a school's instructor on school property for purposes of providing or receiving instruction in the use of that weapon.

    (e) An individual who possesses a firearm on school property if that possession is with the permission of the school's principal or an agent of the school designated by the school's principal or the school board.

    (f) An individual who is 18 years of age or older who is not a student at the school and who possesses a firearm on school property while transporting a student to or from the school if any of the following apply:

    (i) The individual is carrying an antique firearm, completely unloaded, in a wrapper or container in the trunk of a vehicle while en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area or function involving the exhibition, demonstration or sale of antique firearms.

    (ii) The individual is carrying a firearm unloaded in a wrapper or container in the trunk of the person's vehicle, while in possession of a valid Michigan hunting license or proof of valid membership in an organization having shooting range facilities, and while en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area.

    (iii) The person is carrying a firearm unloaded in a wrapper or container in the trunk of the person's vehicle from the place of purchase to his or her home or place of business or to a place of repair or back to his or her home or place of business, or in moving goods from one place of abode or business to another place of abode or business.

    (iv) The person is carrying an unloaded firearm in the passenger compartment of a vehicle that does not have a trunk, if the person is otherwise complying with the requirements of subparagraph (ii) or (iii) and the wrapper or container is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.

    (6) As used in this section:

    (a) “Antique firearm” means either of the following:

    (i) A firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898, including a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or a replica of such a firearm, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898.

    (ii) A firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

    (b) “School” means a public, private, denominational, or parochial school offering developmental kindergarten, kindergarten, or any grade from 1 through 12.

    (c) “School property” means a building, playing field, or property used for school purposes to impart instruction to children or used for functions and events sponsored by a school, except a building used primarily for adult education or college extension courses.

    (d) “Weapon free school zone” means school property and a vehicle used by a school to transport students to or from school property.
    I was the other guy at the table. And I would like to start out by stating I am not offended in any way shape or form, and I'm not here to start anything, I just want to make sure that the information I have given out is properly understood.

    If you read the bold in the above post, you can see that someone with a CPL does not have to abide by the carry free zones if carrying in the open. There is another set of no carry zones in Michigan that you must follow IF and only if the firearm is concealed. I have done my homework. Now the catch all is that most places are private property, and you can be asked to leave, people can call the police, I have been in cuffs for this, I was let go because I did nothing wrong. but the people who own he property can ask you to leave, if you do not you are tress passing. and that is the extent of it. I amo not a fruit no an idiot, and I agree, NEVER EVER TAKE SOME ONE'S WORD FOR IT! DO YOUR RESEARCH... but make sure you know where too look, and I would encourage to e-mail your State police, I don't know about other states, but Michigan's are amazing and have been a lot of help.

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  3. #17
    Member Array jamierah's Avatar
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    (c) An individual licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
    The catch to this statement is my concealed weapon permit does not allow me to carry in a school zone.

    I think a lot of the confusion to this issue is prior to Michigan becoming a shall issue in 2001 concealed weapon permit holders were exempt from pistol free zones, open carry was banned in the pistol free zones. In the shall issue law concealed carry was banned in pistol free zones.

    This does bring up an interesting point of discussion. Open carry would be/is allowed in all pistol free zone. It would be much easier if they would just remove the pistol free zones.
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    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    You are "researching" OC laws (more accurately, laws applying to not following pistol-free zones) and applying them to CC (but not taking into account the requirements of the MI CCW permit holder). Not how it works.

    For example, if you were to read just the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, you could argue that it was legal to have slaves and women could not vote. However those issues are covered by the 13th and 19th. Or if you were to read 18th you would state the law clearly states it is illegal to drink alcohol. However you would have to read the 21st to understand that it is legal to drink alcohol.

    If you want to read only part of the overall law, then it would appear that a CC permit holder could OC in a "Pistol-Free Zone."

    However, you are missing the point that under the shall-issue MI CCW permit only applies if you CC. Once you OC, your permit no longer applies. In addition, per what is written in english on the back of the MI CCW permit, you can not carry CC, "...at a school, on school property, ..."

    There are a few jurisfiction that have suggested that a MI CCW holder can not legally OC (that you give up the right to OC once you agree to a CCW permit). This has not been taken to court, but has been stated.
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  5. #19
    Member Array jamierah's Avatar
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    By golly they're right, the following is from the Michigan Firearms Laws on the MSP website by none other than Jenny herself. I think someone else referenced this but not in its entirety. The question posed was about reserve police officers but it references anyone with a concealed pistol license

    Opinion No. 7113
    June 28, 2002
    CONCEALED WEAPONS: Reserve police officer carrying exposed pistol in gun-free zones established by Concealed Pistol Licensing Act
    FIREARMS: Reserve police officer carrying exposed pistol in gun-free zones established by Michigan Penal Code.

    LAW ENFORCEMENT:
    PEACE OFFICERS:
    A uniformed reserve police officer acting as an unpaid volunteer for a local police agency may carry an exposed, holstered pistol within the gun-free zones established by the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act; and if the officer is either a fully authorized “peace officer” or, alternatively, possesses a valid concealed pistol license issued under the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act, he or she may also carry an exposed, holstered pistol within the gun-free zones established by the Michigan Penal Code.

    Honorable Gary C. Peters Honorable Mary Ann Middaugh
    State Senator State Representative
    The Capitol The Capitol
    Lansing, MI Lansing, MI
    Honorable Larry Julian
    State Representative
    The Capitol
    Lansing, MI

    You have asked whether a uniformed reserve police officer acting as an unpaid volunteer for a local police agency may carry an exposed, holstered pistol within a “gun-free zone” established by the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act.

    Your inquiry is governed by the interplay between two separate but related statutes, both of which regulate the possession of firearms.
    The Concealed Pistol Licensing Act, 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.421 et seq, regulates the possession and carrying of concealed pistols. The Act prohibits persons from carrying a concealed pistol unless they have been licensed in accordance with the provisions of that Act. Amendatory 2000 PA 381 made significant changes to the Act. Section 5b(7) sets forth specific qualifications a person must possess in order to receive a license to carry a concealed pistol and further provides that a county concealed weapon licensing board “shall issue a license” to an applicant who meets those requirements. The Act also provides that a person who is issued a license under the Act may carry a concealed pistol “anywhere in this state” except in certain designated classes of locations listed in section 5o of the Act. Those exceptions, commonly referred to as “gun free zones,” include the following:
    a) A school or school property…
    b) A public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing
    agency.
    c) A sports arena or stadium.
    d) A dining room, lounge, or bar area of a premises licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998…
    This subdivision shall not apply to an owner or employee of the premises.
    e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship,
    unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship
    permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.
    f) An entertainment facility [that has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more]…
    g) A hospital.
    h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university. [Section 5o(1).]

    234 FIREARMS LAWS OF MICHIGAN — OPINIONS OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
    Section 12a of the Act expressly exempts certain persons from the requirements of the Act, including:
    (a) A peace officer of a duly authorized police agency of the United States or of this state or a political subdivision of this state, who is regularly employed and paid by the United States or this state or a subdivision of this state, except a township constable. [Emphasis added.]
    Under the express terms of this section, a police officer or reserve police officer is exempt from the requirements of the Concealed
    Pistol Licensing Act, including the prohibition against carrying a concealed weapon in a “gun free zone,” but only if the officer (1) possesses the full authority of a peace officer, and not merely special or limited law enforcement authority; and (2) is regularly employed and paid for those services. See OAG, 2001-2002, No 7098, p 74 (January 11, 2002). Your inquiry does not specify whether the uniformed reserve officer in question possesses the full authority of a peace officer. You do, however, specify that the officer in question serves as an unpaid volunteer. Because the exemption contained in section 12a(a) is limited to officers who are “regularly employed,” an unpaid volunteer officer is not exempt from the provisions of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act and is, therefore, prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol in a designated “gun free zone.” OAG No 7098, supra.
    A plain reading of section 5o(1) of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act discloses, however, that its prohibition applies only to the carrying of pistols that are “concealed.” A holstered pistol carried openly and in plain view is not “concealed” and therefore does not violate the prohibition contained in that section. See, e.g., OAG, 1951-1952, No 1388, p 228 (April 18, 1951) (“Should they be so directed by their superior officers, auxiliary police while on duty may carry weapons openly, the prohibition in the Penal Code applying only to ‘concealed’ weapons.”), Cf., People v Johnnie W. Jones, 12 Mich App 293, 296; 162 NW2d 847 (1968); and People v Kincade, 61 Mich App 498, 502; 233 NW2d 54 (1975).
    This, however, does not end the analysis of your question. The carrying of firearms in public is also restricted by the Michigan Penal Code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.1 et seq. Section 234d of the Penal Code identifies certain “gun free zones” similar to those enumerated in section 5o of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act; within those specified zones, the possession of firearms is strictly prohibited, subject to limited exceptions. Specifically, section 234d(1) of the Penal Code provides that:
    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
    (b) A church or other house of religious worship.
    (c) A court.
    (d) A theatre.
    (e) A sports arena.
    (f) A day care center.
    (g) A hospital.
    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session
    of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    This language is significantly broader than that employed by section 5o of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act. By its express terms, section 234d(1) of the Penal Code applies to firearms generally, not merely to pistols, and applies to firearms whether concealed or not. Subsection (2) of this provision creates several specific exceptions to this prohibition, two of which are germane to your inquiry. It provides, in pertinent part that:
    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    * * *
    (b) A peace officer.
    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
    Similarly, section 237a(4) of the Penal Code prohibits possession of a firearm in a weapon free school zone, a term defined in section 237a(6)(d) as “school property and a vehicle used by a school to transport students to or from school property.” Like section 234d(2), the prohibition against possessing firearms in a school zone does not apply to a peace officer or to a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon. Section 237a(5).
    If a reserve officer qualifies as a peace officer, then the officer is exempt from the prohibition contained in sections 234d(1)
    FIREARMS LAWS OF MICHIGAN — OPINIONS OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL 235 and 237a(4) of the Penal Code concerning the possession of firearms on specified premises. If not, sections 234d(2)(c) and 237a(5)(c) of the Penal Code also exempt “[a] person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.” A license issued by a county concealed weapon licensing board under section 5b(7) of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act clearly satisfies the latter exemption. Thus, possession of such a license would enable a reserve police officer to carry an exposed,
    holstered pistol in the “gun free zones” described in sections 234d and 237a of the Penal Code.
    It is my opinion, therefore, that a uniformed reserve police officer acting as an unpaid volunteer for a local police agency may carry an exposed, holstered pistol within the gun-free zones established by the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act; and if the officer is either a fully authorized “peace officer” or, alternatively, possesses a valid concealed pistol license issued under the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act, he or she may also carry an exposed, holstered pistol within the gun-free zones established by the Michigan Penal Code.
    JENNIFER M. GRANHOLM
    Attorney General
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  6. #20
    New Member Array DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis View Post
    On the back of the MI CCW permit it makes it clear that you are not to CC in a school.
    .
    I believe that the discussion concerns Open Carrying, not Concealed Carrying. The back of your permit is listing places in which a CPL holder can not carry a CONCEALED pistol.

    It is true, as shown by David in MI, a person with a CPL CAN open carry a firearm in a school (or other Pistol Free Zones) in Michigan. When I spoke w/ the Chief of Security (sworn LE) of a local district about this, he was aware and told me that he believes that this is how the armed couriers are exempted (through the possession of a cpl).

    That being said, understand that, unless the school staff knows you quite well and you are there in some official capacity, the chances that you will be removed for trespass are almost 100%. If you do not leave at that point, then you will be charged w/ trespass.

    Here is a part of the Attorney General Opinion:

    STATE OF MICHIGAN

    JENNIFER M. GRANHOLM, ATTORNEY GENERAL

    Opinion No. 7113

    June 28, 2002

    Honorable Gary C. Peters
    State Senator
    The Capitol
    Lansing, MI

    Honorable Mary Ann Middaugh
    State Representative
    The Capitol
    Lansing, MI

    Honorable Larry Julian
    State Representative
    The Capitol
    Lansing, MI

    You have asked whether a uniformed reserve police officer acting as an unpaid volunteer for a local police agency may carry an exposed, holstered pistol within a "gun-free zone" established by the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act.

    Your inquiry is governed by the interplay between two separate but related statutes, both of which regulate the possession of firearms.

    The Concealed Pistol Licensing Act, 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.421 et seq, regulates the possession and carrying of concealed pistols. The Act prohibits persons from carrying a concealed pistol unless they have been licensed in accordance with the provisions of that Act. Amendatory 2000 PA 381 made significant changes to the Act. Section 5b(7) sets forth specific qualifications a person must possess in order to receive a license to carry a concealed pistol and further provides that a county concealed weapon licensing board "shall issue a license" to an applicant who meets those requirements. The Act also provides that a person who is issued a license under the Act may carry a concealed pistol "anywhere in this state" except in certain designated classes of locations listed in section 5o of the Act. Those exceptions, commonly referred to as "gun free zones," include the following:

    a) A school or school property . . . .

    b) A public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.

    c) A sports arena or stadium.

    d) A dining room, lounge, or bar area of a premises licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998 . . . . This subdivision shall not apply to an owner or employee of the premises.

    e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.

    f) An entertainment facility [that has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more] . . . .

    g) A hospital.

    h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university. [Section 5o(1).]

    Section 12a of the Act expressly exempts certain persons from the requirements of the Act, including:

    (a) A peace officer of a duly authorized police agency of the United States or of this state or a political subdivision of this state, who is regularly employed and paid by the United States or this state or a subdivision of this state, except a township constable. [Emphasis added.]

    Under the express terms of this section, a police officer or reserve police officer is exempt from the requirements of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act, including the prohibition against carrying a concealed weapon in a "gun free zone," but only if the officer (1) possesses the full authority of a peace officer, and not merely special or limited law enforcement authority; and (2) is regularly employed and paid for those services. See OAG, 2001-2002, No 7098, p 74 (January 11, 2002). Your inquiry does not specify whether the uniformed reserve officer in question possesses the full authority of a peace officer. You do, however, specify that the officer in question serves as an unpaid volunteer. Because the exemption contained in section 12a(a) is limited to officers who are "regularly employed," an unpaid volunteer officer is not exempt from the provisions of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act and is, therefore, prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol in a designated "gun free zone." OAG No 7098, supra.

    A plain reading of section 5o(1) of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act discloses, however, that its prohibition applies only to the carrying of pistols that are "concealed." A holstered pistol carried openly and in plain view is not "concealed" and therefore does not violate the prohibition contained in that section. See, e.g., OAG, 1951-1952, No 1388, p 228 (April 18, 1951) ("Should they be so directed by their superior officers, auxiliary police while on duty may carry weapons openly, the prohibition in the Penal Code applying only to 'concealed' weapons."), Cf., People v Johnnie W. Jones, 12 Mich App 293, 296; 162 NW2d 847 (1968); and People v Kincade, 61 Mich App 498, 502; 233 NW2d 54 (1975).

    This, however, does not end the analysis of your question. The carrying of firearms in public is also restricted by the Michigan Penal Code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.1 et seq. Section 234d of the Penal Code identifies certain "gun free zones" similar to those enumerated in section 5o of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act; within those specified zones, the possession of firearms is strictly prohibited, subject to limited exceptions. Specifically, section 234d(1) of the Penal Code provides that:

    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.

    (b) A church or other house of religious worship.

    (c) A court.

    (d) A theatre.

    (e) A sports arena.

    (f) A day care center.

    (g) A hospital.

    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

    This language is significantly broader than that employed by section 5o of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act. By its express terms, section 234d(1) of the Penal Code applies to firearms generally, not merely to pistols, and applies to firearms whether concealed or not. Subsection (2) of this provision creates several specific exceptions to this prohibition, two of which are germane to your inquiry. It provides, in pertinent part that:

    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

    * * *

    (b) A peace officer.

    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

    Similarly, section 237a(4) of the Penal Code prohibits possession of a firearm in a weapon free school zone, a term defined in section 237a(6)(d) as "school property and a vehicle used by a school to transport students to or from school property." Like section 234d(2), the prohibition against possessing firearms in a school zone does not apply to a peace officer or to a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon. Section 237a(5).

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array NYcarry's Avatar
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    So anyone advocating do their own research, I guess should also for arguments against before the name calling begins.

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    It is fine that there is an allowance / exception for CPL holders. That is one part of the law. However the CPL permit states it does not apply once you OC. So once you OC, your back to OC requirements. It might sound like a dirty trick, but thats how it works.

    There is a distiction between pistol-free and fiream laws. That is part of the issue. However, to sum up:

    An LEO can carry a pistol onto school property (either CC or OC). For example a detective. However there are quasi-LEO that have a right to OC (MI is an OC state) but do not have the right to CC in public unless they have a CPL. OC laws do not allow you to OC (in general, as stated in the penal code) on school property unless you are LEO or have a CPL. The CPL states you can not carry at a school (per the relevant statute changes defining "shall-issue" and "pistol-free zones." Once you transituion to OC, you now fall back onto those defined in the penal code. So as long as these quasi-LEO transition to OC, all is good (because the CPL does not allow carry at a school, but qualify for OC allowance as a LEO).

    If I'm not mistaken, the various links are refrencing a limitation on these quasi-LEOs, that they can't CC at a school. This is not a decision to provide greater carry rights, but strengthens the requirements required by the CPL permit itself (that states no CC on school property).

    What is being provided as an allowance is actually a restriction. The example states that a quasi-LEO can't CC, the CPL does not grant the right to carry on school property. However as a quasi-LEO they are authorised to carry on school property (in this case, OC, because they can't CC without a CPL permit that allows a CC on school property).

    Your typical MI CPL permit holder is not a quasi-LEO (reserve police, etc).

    It is all confusing, however per the requirements of the MI CPL, your CPL:

    1) Does not allow you to carry at a school.
    2) Does not apply once you OC

    Once you OC, and your not reserve police, etc, you are in violation, if in a pistol free zone.
    Last edited by Thanis; March 23rd, 2009 at 11:03 PM.
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  9. #23
    Distinguished Member Array Stetson's Avatar
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    Two things: Why in the world would anyone open carry if they have a permit to carry?Why give up the edge? I think that's it's pretty uniform you can't bring firearms on city,town or county property.Get caught doing this maybe time in pokey, large fine and can guarantee you'll be losing your permit!

  10. #24
    New Member Array DrTodd's Avatar
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    Read the Opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis View Post
    No one questions if an LEO can carry a pistol onto school property (either CC or OC). For example a plain clothed detective. However there are quasi-LEO, who can OC on a school (but have no legal right to CC in public unless they have a CPL). So if these quasi-LEO transition to OC, all is good.

    Your typical MI CPL permit holder is not a reserve police, etc.

    I'm not confusing OC and CC laws. At best, your CPL does not apply once you OC. Once you OC, and your not reserve police, etc, you are in violation.
    You did not read the opinion, Thanis. Read it again. Although the original question does concern a reserve officer, the AG goes on to explain that there are two classes of individuals who are exempt from the prohibition in regards to possessing a pistol in the Pistol Free areas: a police officer OR alternatively a person possessing a CPL .

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    Ex Member Array zigziggityzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stetson View Post
    Two things: Why in the world would anyone open carry if they have a permit to carry?Why give up the edge? I think that's it's pretty uniform you can't bring firearms on city,town or county property.Get caught doing this maybe time in pokey, large fine and can guarantee you'll be losing your permit!
    The law regarding OC is perfectly clear. If you have your CPL, you may openly carry in a school zone. You can't lose your CPL for obeying the law.

    As far as "giving up your edge," give me a break. The only time this could possibly hold true is if there were a crazed gunmen out solely for a large body count. Any other time, some perp looking for quick cash will choose a mark that's less likely to kill or arrest him. If he sees a MWAG, he'll wait, and choose a softer target.

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    New Member Array DrTodd's Avatar
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    Stetson,

    I don't know how it is in Maine; Michigan prohibits local governments from regulating firearms. The State has total preemption. So, at least in Michigan one may carry firearms on "city, town, or county property", pursuant to state law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stetson View Post
    Two things: Why in the world would anyone open carry if they have a permit to carry?Why give up the edge? I think that's it's pretty uniform you can't bring firearms on city,town or county property.Get caught doing this maybe time in pokey, large fine and can guarantee you'll be losing your permit!
    I don't get it, if you can't carry any of those places... where do you carry?

  14. #28
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    Interesting to see how Michigan does it.

    Here,
    1) State CCL exempts you in the Fedl Law.
    2) It's legal to carry on school grounds, just not in buildings "if they are posted".... and it's legal if they are NOT posted with signage approved by the State Atty Gen.

    Of course, initially every school posted their buildings. Now, the signs are starting to come down.

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    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Think about it. If you can't legally OC at a school, unless you have a CPL, are the parents, children, and school employees to assume you have a CPL if you are OC. BTW, I don't think they have a legal right to demand you provide your CPL. Even if you displayed your CPL, how could they be sure it was real. They would have to call LEO if they want to check if you were a CPL. Enjoy the conversation at the station.

    Michigan Legislature

    You guys keep reading it as if what apples to the penal code requirements (allowing exception for LEO and CPL) applies to the statute (CPL shall-issue).

    The statute states those issued a CPL are prohibited from CC on school property per Section 28.425o.

    However, the statute (and CPL) only allows the following "authorized conduct," the, "...Carry a pistol concealed..." This is per 28.425c. OC authorization is seperate and governed under different laws, statutes, codes, or whatever.

    So once you transition from CC to OC, the CPL no longer applies, according to the type of CPL most MI residents have and for those, other state issued, non-MI issued, MI reprocicity (recognises), run of the mill, CC permits from other states.

    Now there are other forms of CPL permits (like federal and other quasi-LEO) that are not the same as the state issued ones.

    So penal code might allow those with CPL to OC at a school but the CPL statute ONLY AUTHORIZES CC (and does not apply to OC) and does not grant the right to CC at a school.

    Only when you CC does the CPL apply. Once you OC, the CPL is invalid.

    The old catch 22.

    PS: A few have stated that the CPL holder who has agreed to the CPL has given up OC rights, but that is more scare tactic then truth (I hope).
    NRA Member
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  16. #30
    New Member Array Kimberguy's Avatar
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    ok, lets break this down Barny style;

    Section 28.425o
    applies to carrying a concealed pistol

    Section 750.234d
    applies to carrying a pistol
    and does not apply to CPL holders

    so if one has a CPL and carries openly neither list applies.

    I don't think I can make it any more simple.

    Your CPL still matters when you OC.

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