Explain me this...

This is a discussion on Explain me this... within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I am from Michigan. I feel like I am now pretty up to date on the laws here after a lot of research and here ...

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 74

Thread: Explain me this...

  1. #1
    Member Array C Zeller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    44

    Explain me this...

    I am from Michigan. I feel like I am now pretty up to date on the laws here after a lot of research and here on this forum (thanks guys). Saturday, at a local and very small gun show, there was a booth that had a couple of young bucks my age at it, 22-23. They proceeded to explain to my friends and I about open carry here in Michigan. They told us that it was legal to open carry in pistol free zones, including schools!!! My understanding is that my pistol is to stay off of school grounds unless picking up a person while still in my vehicle. Why would he be telling me as well as others this? I cannot find anywhere where it states that it is ok to walk into a school with a gun on my hip. I asked him had he done this and he said yes. Nobody thought anything of it. Correct me if this is true and an actual law but I just don't see how it could be if you are not LEO's.
    I know what you're thinking, "Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself...you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk? - Dirty Harry

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    Senior Member Array thebigdl86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    OK
    Posts
    662
    I would say this guy has no idea what he is talking about. Google state gun laws and find out for your state. It will clearly say there.
    "Anyone worth shooting, is probably worth shooting several times."

  4. #3
    Moderator
    Array RETSUPT99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    44,418
    The guy is a 'fruit loop'...run as far away from his advice as you can...

    Don't take anyone's word for anything concerning CCW laws in your state. Get on the iNet and find out for yourself. This way you may insure that your concealed carry days will not be shortened.
    OMO
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

    ***********************************
    Certified Glock Armorer
    NRA Life Member[/B]

  5. #4
    Senior Member Array thebigdl86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    OK
    Posts
    662
    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    The guy is a 'fruit loop'...run as far away from his advice as you can...

    Don't take anyone's word for anything concerning CCW laws in your state. Get on the iNet and find out for yourself. This way you may insure that your concealed carry days will not be shortened.
    OMO
    ++1
    "Anyone worth shooting, is probably worth shooting several times."

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    3,194
    Sounds like an idiot trying to talk you into three hots and a cot to me. NEVER take someones word for it until you do your own research, even if someone means no harm they may be interpreting the laws themselves.
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

    NRA Member

  7. #6
    Member Array C Zeller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    44
    Quote Originally Posted by rottkeeper View Post
    Sounds like an idiot trying to talk you into three hots and a cot to me. NEVER take someones word for it until you do your own research, even if someone means no harm they may be interpreting the laws themselves.
    Understood. I do not personally open carry because I just prefer to keep it concealed, however, in no way was I going to walk into a school with gun on my hip. I had an encounter with a state trooper yesterday while doing some target shooting in a friends field (a whole other funny story) and my friends and I asked him about this and he told us from what he knows that this guy is misinterpreting something.
    I know what you're thinking, "Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself...you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk? - Dirty Harry

  8. #7
    New Member Array khicks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    michigan
    Posts
    13
    first i would like to say hi to you all . second check out opencarry.org there is a world of info for you there, just scroll down to the state section. what i have seen is you can carry at a school, it is not one of the no carry zones listed. allso check out the michigan state police has links to the states gun laws

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    3,194
    Quote Originally Posted by C Zeller View Post
    Understood. I do not personally open carry because I just prefer to keep it concealed, however, in no way was I going to walk into a school with gun on my hip. I had an encounter with a state trooper yesterday while doing some target shooting in a friends field (a whole other funny story) and my friends and I asked him about this and he told us from what he knows that this guy is misinterpreting something.
    Glad you are researching rather than taking his word for it, good job.
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

    NRA Member

  10. #9
    Moderator
    Array Rock and Glock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Colorado at 15,670'
    Posts
    12,145
    here are some resources you may or may not have noticed yet:

    Handgunlaw.us

    NRA-ILA ::

    Good luck, and right decision to do your own research!

  11. #10
    Member Array jamierah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    316
    I've heard this some where too and from the research I've done it's illegal. This is from Michigan Legislature.

    Another link for MI firearm laws http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...s/firearms.pdf

    4) Except as provided in subsection (5), an individual who possesses a weapon in a weapon free school zone is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by 1 or more of the following:

    (a) Imprisonment for not more than 93 days.

    (b) Community service for not more than 100 hours.

    (c) A fine of not more than $2,000.00.

    (5) Subsection (4) does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) An individual employed by or contracted by a school if the possession of that weapon is to provide security services for the school.

    (b) A peace officer.

    (c) An individual licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

    (d) An individual who possesses a weapon provided by a school or a school's instructor on school property for purposes of providing or receiving instruction in the use of that weapon.

    (e) An individual who possesses a firearm on school property if that possession is with the permission of the school's principal or an agent of the school designated by the school's principal or the school board.

    (f) An individual who is 18 years of age or older who is not a student at the school and who possesses a firearm on school property while transporting a student to or from the school if any of the following apply:

    (i) The individual is carrying an antique firearm, completely unloaded, in a wrapper or container in the trunk of a vehicle while en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area or function involving the exhibition, demonstration or sale of antique firearms.

    (ii) The individual is carrying a firearm unloaded in a wrapper or container in the trunk of the person's vehicle, while in possession of a valid Michigan hunting license or proof of valid membership in an organization having shooting range facilities, and while en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area.

    (iii) The person is carrying a firearm unloaded in a wrapper or container in the trunk of the person's vehicle from the place of purchase to his or her home or place of business or to a place of repair or back to his or her home or place of business, or in moving goods from one place of abode or business to another place of abode or business.

    (iv) The person is carrying an unloaded firearm in the passenger compartment of a vehicle that does not have a trunk, if the person is otherwise complying with the requirements of subparagraph (ii) or (iii) and the wrapper or container is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.

    (6) As used in this section:

    (a) “Antique firearm” means either of the following:

    (i) A firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898, including a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or a replica of such a firearm, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898.

    (ii) A firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

    (b) “School” means a public, private, denominational, or parochial school offering developmental kindergarten, kindergarten, or any grade from 1 through 12.

    (c) “School property” means a building, playing field, or property used for school purposes to impart instruction to children or used for functions and events sponsored by a school, except a building used primarily for adult education or college extension courses.

    (d) “Weapon free school zone” means school property and a vehicle used by a school to transport students to or from school property.
    We the willing, being guided by the unknowing, Doing impossible feats, for the ungrateful, Have been doing so much with so little for so long,
    We now feel qualified to do, absolutely anything, with literally nothing

  12. #11
    Member Array JimH58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northern Kentucky
    Posts
    300
    There is nothing worse then guys like the ones you met up with that think they know everything and try to be the authorities on subjects they probably should keep quiet on.
    JimH
    Kentucky
    ********************************
    S&W 442, Bersa 380, S&W 9mm M&P, Springfield XD40c
    ********************************
    Member: NRA, USCCA

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    2,375
    What you should have done was to tell this person that seeing is believing And that you would go along with him as an observer as he went into the school open carry I wouldn't believe any one making a claim like this. This sounds like the people who try to tell you that you do not have to pay taxes. With all the shootings going on at schools I doubt if this is true.

  14. #13
    Member Array David in MI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    96
    I hate to pipe in even before starting my official "new member" thread but the two people working the booth seem to be correct.

    Opinion No. 7097 January 11, 2002… A person licensed by this state… to carry a concealed weapon….By its express terms, section 234d prohibits certain persons from carrying a firearm in the enumerated places but explicitly exempts from its prohibition “[a] person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.” Thus, any person licensed to carry a concealed pistol, including a private investigator, is exempt from the gun-free zone restrictions imposed by section 234d of the Penal Code and may therefore possess firearms while on the types of premises listed in that statute.

    “Your analysis is correct. Non-CPL pistol free zones do not apply to CPL holders. The CPL pistol free zones only apply to CPL holders carrying a concealed pistol. Therefore, a CPL holder may openly carry a pistol in Michigan's pistol free zones.”

    Sincerely, Sgt. Thomas Deasy, Michigan State Police Executive Resource Section, (517) 336-6441

    “…My office has contacted the Michigan State Police legislative liaison and has received some answers to share with you. According to the liaison, it is legal to openly carry a firearm in a "Pistol Free Zone" if you are a licensed CPL holder. I was advised that your information was correct that MCL 28.425o and MCL 750-234d permit this activity. I was informed that there was no other additional relevant laws regarding this matter…” Michael A Prusi, State Senator 38th District"

  15. #14
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    2,347
    You have to look at the entirety of the firearm law, not just a portion. On the back of the MI CCW permit it makes it clear that you are not to CC in a school.

    The laws that state you can't OC at a school leave a loop hole for CC carry. There are different types of CC. If you are a MI CCW permit holder, one of the requirements of the MI CCW permit is that you will not CC at a school.

    In MI, the history of CC permits was based on the idea that a person could legally OC, so suspicion was placed on someone who would CC. I'm not defending or disagreeing with the thought process. However the reasoning should be considered as you try to understand MI CC laws began when OC was a given.

    As time went on, the norm changed concerning OC. So you get to a point where it is frowned (and made illegal) if a normal citizen OC at a school. However CC laws were different then they are now.

    So you get into a loop. I believe somewhere in older MI law it states you can CC (with a permit) were it is legal to OC. However this does not mean you can OC where it is legal to CC. Now if you review carry laws in MI, according to OC relevant laws it is illegal to OC carry at a school, however a person with a CC permit can carry. This leads you to requirements of the modern CCW permit where a CCW permit can not carry on a school.

    Net sum, as of right now, school = gun free zone (limited to in the car while picking up child, etc.).

    People end up reading a portion of one firearm legislation or court ruling and don't read the other relevant legislation, court ruling, or statute.

    Don't take what I've stated as fact. When I asked, this is what I was told, and it was reasonable to me. I have accepted this, and what a few gun law summary books / pamplets I've read. I'm satisfied in MI, schools are gunfree zones for OC and MI CCW permits. I also believe there is a law that allows holders of CC permits from the states they are residents of can CC in MI as long as they follow MI CCW permit limitations (in addition to some (but not all) limitations required by the issuing state, for example number of firearms, while a MI CCW does not have a limitation). So even an out-of-state issued CC (issued by another state) can not legally carry in a school.

    As to what type of CC can legally carry in a MI school, I guess there must be some federal ones (like I think there is a CC permit the US Marshals can issue), and I think there are some LEO related (but non-LE) CC permits that some agencies issue. Lastly, I think the state of MI has versions of CC permits that are for a lack of better words, "may-issue" (for non-leo like security guards, prison workers, etc) that is unrelated to the "shall-issue" MI CCW permit.

    I really don't know what types of CC are allowed at a MI school, I just know my MI CCW permit states (printed in english on the back) that I can't legally.
    NRA Member
    S&W 642 (no-lock) with .38 Spl +P 135 GR Gold GDHP
    Glock G31 & G33 with .357 Sig 125 GR. SXT Winchester Ranger

  16. #15
    Ex Member Array zigziggityzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Posts
    92

    Nice guys in here.

    Hi all, It was me who was behind that table. Let me just say that I don't appreciate being called a "Fruit loop", "Idiot", or any other name. You can call me a "Know-it-all" if you'd like, but I'm not sure you're qualified, given the conversation on this thread.

    If you'd read the laws concerning pistol-free zones, you would notice that Concealed Pistol License holders of this state or any other state are exempt.

    The laws regarding Concealed Carry licenses only prohibit Concealed Carry in certain places. Thus, as the Attorney General (then Granholm) had correctly concluded: If you have your concealed carry license (CPL in Michigan), you are exempt from Pistol-Free Zones, as long as you are openly carrying your firearm.

    LEARN THE LAW. OBEY IT. And don't call me names, it usually comes back to bite you in the butt.

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Explain to me please
    By Tala in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: August 18th, 2010, 04:06 AM
  2. Ok - explain this...
    By SC Tiger in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: June 30th, 2010, 01:38 AM
  3. would someone please explain to me..
    By SVTboomer in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: June 6th, 2010, 10:42 AM
  4. EXPLAIN THIS .45 Barrel To Me
    By QKShooter in forum Related Gear & Equipment
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: June 27th, 2005, 12:16 AM

Search tags for this page

ago 7113, jennifer granholm june 28, 2002
,
exempt from michigan no carry zone
,
if you are a police reserve in michigan can you carry. in pistol free. are
,
its pa act 235 law enforcement
,
mcl 28.435o
,
michigan ccw regulations school grounds
,
michigan pistol free zone exemption allowance
,
pistol licensing act 1927
,

what are my rights in michigan as a cpl holder

,
why does my michigan cpl says im exempt
,
??my office has contacted the michigan state police legislative liaison and has received some answers to share with
Click on a term to search for related topics.