Milwaukee Chief Has Officers Ignore AG's Gun Memo

This is a discussion on Milwaukee Chief Has Officers Ignore AG's Gun Memo within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by P7fanatic +1 Me thinks someone needs to walk into to town open carrying. Have a friend with his camcorder rolling. I'd sure ...

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Thread: Milwaukee Chief Has Officers Ignore AG's Gun Memo

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array AllAmerican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P7fanatic View Post
    +1

    Me thinks someone needs to walk into to town open carrying. Have a friend with his camcorder rolling.
    I'd sure like 10% of that award.



    LOL you have the camera covered?
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  3. #17
    Member Array OhioPx4Storm's Avatar
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    What an arrogant Person!
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  4. #18
    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
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    Maybe Wisconsians can use this to force acceptance of shall-issue concealed carry.

  5. #19
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    The Mayor, City Manager, and City Attorney just need to grow a pair in that they appear they do not have then simply FIRE the CHIEF, he is just a city employee.

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul34 View Post
    Maybe Wisconsians can use this to force acceptance of shall-issue concealed carry.

    Not until Emperor Doyle is overthrown.

  7. #21
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    Wisconsin sucks.

    All the AG said is that OC does not equal DC. If there is reasonable suspicion that the individual with the OC pistol has it in their possession in preparation to commit a crime, the arrest is valid. I'd say that if you are in certain places, the location alone is potentially enough for some officers to believe they have reasonable suspicion of exactly that. I'd bet on it.

    Otherwise, if you are a non-felon entry level gangsta, you just keep your pistol visible, and the cops can't touch you? No way Milwaukee cops will allow that...

    The AG has to back the rights of the masses, based on law. At least he has done that. I think I'm going shopping for a real cool OC holster for my XD...

    I actually printed off his memo, and I'm considering getting it laminated...
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  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by rlimke View Post
    Not until Emperor Doyle is overthrown.


    Green pushed him pretty hard last time. I'm not sure what it will take to get Doyle out. He's got a strong following.
    Washington Post 06/28/2010 re: Supreme Court Decision
    "The court's decision means that the enigmatically worded Second Amendment... identifies an individual right to gun ownership, like the freedom of speech, that cannot be unduly restricted by Congress, state laws or city ordinances. "

  9. #23
    Distinguished Member Array Rugergirl's Avatar
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    BBQ get together in a nice Milwaukee park sounds like a great idea.
    If we all got together and picked a weekend to meet and eat, I wonder just what he's do faced with a hundred or more people???
    Hmm
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  10. #24
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    Ed Flynn, Call Your Lawyer - Quickly! | Newsradio 620 - Milwaukee, Wisconsin News, Talk, Sports, Weather | Jeff Wagner


    Ed Flynn, Call Your Lawyer - Quickly!
    By Jeff Wagner

    Story Created: Apr 22, 2009

    Monday, Wisconsin Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen issued an advisory legal opinion stating that openly carrying a firearm was not, in and of itself, a basis for a charge of disorderly conduct.

    This morning, Milwaukee Police Chief Edward Flynn announced that regardless of what the Attorney General says, his officers are under orders "to take down anyone with a firearm". By that he says he means that "officers seeing anybody carrying a gun will put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide if the person has a right to carry it."

    Ed, for God's sake, shut your pie hole and call your lawyer!

    Frankly, the firearms laws in this State are a mess. Most of the present problems could have been avoided had the Governor agreed to develop a reasonable policy allowing law-abiding citizens (with appropriate training, licensing and certification) to carry concealed firearms under certain circumstances. He didn't though. As a result, you now have laws on the book which are in direct conflict with the plain language of the Wisconsin Constitution.

    I would much prefer to have trained, certified citizens who have passed a background check carrying concealed firearms than have untrained people wandering down the street with guns on their hips. That's not where we are with the law though.

    Which brings us to Chief Flynn.

    Before police can "arrest" an individual, they need probable cause to believe that the person has committed a crime. The first time that one of Flynn's officers "tackles" a person they observe doing nothing more than carrying a firearm openly, they are inviting a lawsuit against the City. If the person happens to be seriously injured while they are being "taken down" without probable cause, Flynn better get ready to open the City's checkbook.

    Hopefully, we won't see a large number of people suddenly start "packing heat" as they stroll the streets of Milwaukee. My suggestion however would be that Chief Flynn immediately sit down with the City Attorney and develop a protocol for dealing with the people who do start carrying guns openly.

    Candidly, ordering officers to assault people who are engaging in behavior that the Attorney General of the State defines as lawful is ill conceived and may, in and of itself, be unlawful. That's not to say that the police aren't allowed to investigate situations where they see people carrying firearms openly. It's just that the "investigation" should be within the limits of what's permitted by the law and the Constitution.

    Hopefully, Chief Flynn was just engaging in some hyperbole when he spouted off on this matter. If he was serious though, the City Attorney needs to get his attention before Milwaukee gets hit with a rash of lawsuits.

    In a larger sense though, perhaps this latest ruling will get the attention of the Governor and the Legislature - and motivate them to straighten out the quagmire that Wisconsin gun laws have become once and for all!

    [emphis added]

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  11. #25
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    That report sounds bogus to me, and I call shannanigans on it with a big "S". Most cops (even desk jockey Chiefs) support the second ammendment and I doubt the Chief would tell his troops to conduct themselves that way to the general public when they are carrying legally if their law allows for open carry.

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugergirl View Post
    BBQ get together in a nice Milwaukee park sounds like a great idea.
    If we all got together and picked a weekend to meet and eat, I wonder just what he's do faced with a hundred or more people???
    Hmm
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  13. #27
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    More -- This time from a major paper & AP

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...,2756197.story


    Milwaukee chief to officers: Ignore gun memo
    Associated Press
    5:49 PM CDT, April 21, 2009
    MADISON, Wis. - Milwaukee's police chief said Tuesday he'll go on telling his officers to take down anyone with a firearm despite Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen's finding that people can carry guns openly if they do it peacefully.

    Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn said he'll continue to tell officers they can't assume people are carrying guns legally in a city that has seen nearly 200 homicides in the past two years.

    "My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we'll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it," Flynn said. "Maybe I'll end up with a protest of cowboys. In the meantime, I've got serious offenders with access to handguns. It's irresponsible to send a message to them that if they just carry it openly no one can bother them."

    State Justice Department spokesman Kevin St. John declined to comment.

    Wisconsin is one of 29 states that allow people to openly carry a firearm without a permit. It's one of two states that ban concealed weapons.

    Flynn's comments came as gun control advocates and state lawmakers derided Van Hollen's ruling.

    "The idea of people ... openly carrying guns strikes me as somewhere between bonkers and totally ridiculous and stupid," said state Rep. Josh Zepnick, D-Milwaukee.

    Van Hollen, a Republican, issued a memo Monday explaining how disorderly conduct overlaps with the constitutional right to bear arms. Van Hollen concluded citizens have a constitutional right to openly carry firearms, and disorderly conduct charges depend on the circumstances.

    OpenCarry.org, a gun advocacy Web site, issued a statement saying the finding was "spot on." The Wisconsin Sheriffs and Deputy Sheriffs Association said the memo clearly finds people can bear arms in an orderly manner.

    But Oregon, Wis., Police Chief Doug Pettit said the memo doesn't provide much direction for police, who already know open carry is legal in Wisconsin and disorderly conduct is a case-by-case judgment call.

    "I don't know if the memo clarifies anything, other than it's not an automatic disorderly conduct charge," Pettit said. "Clearly, I think law enforcement, like anything else, will have to use their discretion."

    Dane County District Attorney Brian Blanchard said open carry cases have rarely come up, but he'd want to know why someone has chosen to carry a gun before making a charging decision.

    "Police will be quick to ask you, 'Why do you have a gun with you? Is somebody stalking you?' Those are going to be fair inquiries," he said. "We'd be particularly concerned if someone was openly possessing a gun in the context of an ongoing dispute or feud."

    Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke said the memo just muddies things. Police still aren't clear on what might constitute disorderly conduct, he said.

    "How we approach a person with a gun, I can tell you right now, isn't going to change. As far as a law enforcement person is concerned, you just don't walk up to a person with a gun and say 'excuse me, sir,"' Clarke said. "On the ground, give up. Get that gun under control and then we'll figure out what we got here."

    Gov. Jim Doyle, a former attorney general, believes local communities should be allowed to create their own gun ordinances, spokesman Lee Sensenbrenner said. A 1995 law bars municipalities from enacting stiffer ordinances than state statutes, but carrying a rifle during hunting season is different from walking around Milwaukee with a gun on your hip, Sensenbrenner said.

    Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, said Van Hollen's memo underscores the nation's weak gun laws. The Wisconsin Anti-Violence Effort, a statewide organization dedicated to ending gun violence, estimates guns kill about 450 people in the state each year.

    "A lot of people who get guns and carry guns don't always understand the responsibility and risk that goes with gun ownership," Helmke said. "People get drunk, people get angry, people make mistakes. More guns generally mean more violence."

    State Rep. Leon Young, D-Milwaukee, a former police officer, said he was shocked by Van Hollen's memo. He said he planned to look into drafting legislation to ban open carry.

    "It's just a bad idea. We've just had too many incidents of gun violence," Young said.

    Flynn, Milwaukee's police chief, said the opinion was clearly drafted in the safety of the Justice Department's offices, not on Milwaukee's streets.

    "From an officer's safety point of view and a public point of view," he said, "we're not going to start with the assumption that someone displaying a handgun is doing it lawfully."
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    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  14. #28
    New Member Array bugbuster's Avatar
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    Chief Flynn

    While Chief Flynn has reorganized the police dept. and crime stats are improving, less than 100 homicides for the first time in years, I wish I had been able to ask this guy about concealed carry when public hearings were held with the chief candidates.
    I should've known better,he was Mayor Tom Barrett's pick and he's an anti-gun nut. Chief Flynn came to Milwaukee from Springfield, Massachusetts and before that, he was chief in Alexandria VA.
    So I guess, my question to him or people that know of him, what did he do when he was chief in a state that allows both open and concealed carry?
    Right now,I've lost all respect for him, I consider him just a suit, a political cop, taking his marching orders from the socialists that run Milwaukee and the Blago like governor Doyle.

  15. #29
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    I removed 3 comments of religious nature from the thread. Consider this a warning.
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  16. #30
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    Keep in mind that Madison Wis. is the last bastion of communism next to Berkley, Ca.
    Madison is the home of the U. of Wisconsin, and as liberal as they get.

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