Asked to leave...in VA!

Asked to leave...in VA!

This is a discussion on Asked to leave...in VA! within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Well, I debated where to put this thread, but since it includes OC, I guess it's going here to play it safe... So I've been ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Asked to leave...in VA!

    Well, I debated where to put this thread, but since it includes OC, I guess it's going here to play it safe...

    So I've been "asked" to leave 2 different places in one week this past week. This is really a record for me. I haven't been "asked" to leave due to any carrying for quite some time. This is especially odd to me given the location. At any rate here we go:

    Incident #1. I visited the Udvar Hazy Air and Space Museum in Dulles VA on Wednesday 5/20. I did spot a no weapons sign on the side of the exit ramp on the way, but didn't spot any signage on the door. I figured as much though. I had a SAK in my front left pocket and a Kersaw assisted opener clipped into the side pocket of my jeans(nevermind that pesky 1911 that was neatly concealed under my dress shirt).

    I got to the inner door and noticed all the security and it wasn't until that point that it dawned on me that I could be in for a bit of trouble. But then I noticed they weren't wanding anyone or metal detecting, just checking bags. I figured great, no worries.

    So this particular museum also has an IMAX that shows major movie releases. I was here for the Star Trek showing. never was much of a trekkie nerd, but I figured what the hay. It looks like it could be good. I was running a bit late and was supposed to be meeting a group. The group btw had MY TICKET and was already inside. Cell phones were already turned off apparently so I was stuck trying to explain my predicament to the ticket kid who basically shrugged me off. Nice. I even asked if he could send someone else in to check around the corner and see if they were waiting for me with my ticket...no go. By this point the Security officer came around to see what was going on and it was clear from the time he showed up he was sizing me up. So right off the bat, and quite surprisingly I might add, he proceeded to inform me that I needed to leave. When I asked why, he said I was violating the weapons policy. ***? Doh...that pesky kershaw I forgot about. He had spotted the clip on the side of my pocket halfway down my leg. Crap! He escorted me to the door, but was at least nice enough to tell me that if I left the knife in my car, that I would be allowed to return...okie dokie. No problem ocifer. So I returned sans knife and he was happy...just forgot to mention that 1911 part. He did say I could come back after I removed the KNIFE. All in all I ended up buying another ticket, but the ticket counter folks did cut me a discount.

    Incident #2
    This is the one that burned me up, but I kept my cool and dealt with it. Thursday 5/21 market street bar and grill...
    I was gathering with a group of old friends for a reunion of sorts at the Market Street bar and grill in the Reston Town center in Reston VA. We were all out on the outer patio enjoying appetizers etc... for a good 20 minutes or so with no issues. I was wearing slacks and a white button up with my 1911 on OC (required in VA in a place that sells alcohol for on site consumption). About 30 minutes in the manager comes up and pulls me aside...I knew right away...He asked me to take my gun back to my car or leave. Then he proceeded to lecture me on VA law and stating that I was not allowed to carry there because they sold alcohol for consumption. I politely disagreed and explained his error, and then asked specifically, if it was the Market Street Grill's POLICY that there are no firearms and he said YES. I told him that's ok, I'll leave, and I'll take my party(18-20 techies that tip well) with me. I also explained that I would never spend a dime in his establishment again. I have yet to write a letter to their corp on this one yet as I wanted to wait a week and have a "cooling off" period, so my letter comes across rationally and not over the top or hot headed.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array SubNine's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear you were asked to leave. That is one of the most frustrating things, being asked to leave when we aren't doing anything wrong.

    I'm sure the security guard at the museum would really be freaking out if he had found out you weren't carrying only a small pocket knife. I think you did good complying with the request to leave in the 2nd incident. I just can't believe what this nation has become where people can't handle the sight of a firearm even when its holstered and not in their face.

    BTW I like your sig line!
    USMC rule # 23 of gunfighting: Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

    I am the God fearing, gun toting, flag waving conservative you were warned about!

  3. #3
    Member Array doobie's Avatar
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    Did you leave before being served on incident #2? I know I'd have left as soon as told to leave, even if it was after I was served and before I paid. I'd tell them they could follow me out to collect the money. If I had been half way through the meal I'd pay of the price and no tip. If that was their policy they should have told me before they took my order and served me.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Array dnowell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doobie View Post
    Did you leave before being served on incident #2? I know I'd have left as soon as told to leave, even if it was after I was served and before I paid. I'd tell them they could follow me out to collect the money. If I had been half way through the meal I'd pay of the price and no tip. If that was their policy they should have told me before they took my order and served me.
    In many places, a restaurant that asks you to leave cannot legally require you to pay your bill. They can ask, but there are no consequences if you don't pay. For god's sake, verify that in your state before you try it out though. Last thing you want is an arrest.

  5. #5
    Member Array nkanofolives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doobie View Post
    Did you leave before being served on incident #2? I know I'd have left as soon as told to leave, even if it was after I was served and before I paid. I'd tell them they could follow me out to collect the money. If I had been half way through the meal I'd pay of the price and no tip. If that was their policy they should have told me before they took my order and served me.

    Woah, woah, woah....hold your horses on the "no tip thing"...Please hear me out...it is NOT the servers/bartenders fault that you are being asked to leave. It is managements, owners/corporates fault. In VA and most states, servers are paid below minimum wage (here in VA it is $2.13 per hour)...plus as a server you tip out somewhere between 3% and 10% of your sales to hosts, bussers, bar, food runners. By you NOT tipping properly, it actually COSTS the server money and that is not fair...yes, depending on how crappy you tip, the server can actually end up shelling out their own cash for you to dine at their restaurant.

    I suggest you simply never give money to that company again, write them a letter, tell your friends...so on and so on...

    Yes, I am a server.

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array TerriLi's Avatar
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    I second the tip the server part. They do not get minimum wage, they get more then 50% of their money from tips.
    I know not what this "overkill" means.

    Honing the knives, Cleaning the longguns, Stocking up ammo.

  7. #7
    Member Array wolfshead's Avatar
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    Boycott!!!!
    Vince K
    Aerospace Designer, Freemason, NRA member

  8. #8
    Member Array Tombstone55's Avatar
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    For a pocket knife!!!!

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nkanofolives View Post
    Woah, woah, woah....hold your horses on the "no tip thing"...Please hear me out...it is NOT the servers/bartenders fault that you are being asked to leave. It is managements, owners/corporates fault. In VA and most states, servers are paid below minimum wage (here in VA it is $2.13 per hour)...plus as a server you tip out somewhere between 3% and 10% of your sales to hosts, bussers, bar, food runners. By you NOT tipping properly, it actually COSTS the server money and that is not fair...yes, depending on how crappy you tip, the server can actually end up shelling out their own cash for you to dine at their restaurant.

    I suggest you simply never give money to that company again, write them a letter, tell your friends...so on and so on...

    Yes, I am a server.
    Hold on to your tray there skippy. IT WAS the server that brought over the manager. We(our group) reserved the patio area outside with no other restaurant patrons around. Everyone with the exception of the servers were inside. So only the servers would have called out the manager. Not to mention, servers not getting paid = servers quiting if they're smart which HURTS the restaurants bottom dollar in lost revenue due to having to retrain new hires that screw up everyones orders. In the long run, yes the servers are a direct impact on the business model. As to whether or not they do or don't get paid enough...WHO SIGNED THE EFFING EMPLOYMENT AGREEMENT?
    sorry, rant and rabbit trail off...
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  10. #10
    Member Array doobie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nkanofolives View Post
    Woah, woah, woah....hold your horses on the "no tip thing"...Please hear me out...it is NOT the servers/bartenders fault that you are being asked to leave. It is managements, owners/corporates fault. In VA and most states, servers are paid below minimum wage (here in VA it is $2.13 per hour)...plus as a server you tip out somewhere between 3% and 10% of your sales to hosts, bussers, bar, food runners. By you NOT tipping properly, it actually COSTS the server money and that is not fair...yes, depending on how crappy you tip, the server can actually end up shelling out their own cash for you to dine at their restaurant.

    I suggest you simply never give money to that company again, write them a letter, tell your friends...so on and so on...

    Yes, I am a server.
    Quote Originally Posted by TerriLi View Post
    I second the tip the server part. They do not get minimum wage, they get more then 50% of their money from tips.
    I fully understand servers don't make minimum wage. I don't eat out often, but when I do I usually tip very well. I tend to go for half price appetizers and will usually tip 15-20%+ 1/4-1/2 the savings

    My decision to not tip after beign asked to leave would be dependent on the situation, but I likely would not tip. If management has a policy, the servers should be aware of it and I should be told BEFORE I order or BEFORE I eat.

    Once I'm told to leave the 'contract' to pay for services and food is broken. They would probably get a comment, "If I'm being told to leave, my responsibility to pay for services rendered as of so far are null and void; am I still being requested to leave or may I finish my food and pay for the services rendered?"
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  11. #11
    VIP Member Array HKinNY's Avatar
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    If I was asked to leave and did not pay the bill, I would still tip the server on what the bill should have been. I have never stiffed a server on a tip but one time I have server who barely did their job but the bus boy was on point. I mean as the glasses got empty he was there,bread basket was there. So when it came time to pay the bill I tipped the waitress 16% in front of the bussboy. She thanked me and before she walked away. I tipped the busboy double over the waitress. The waitress was pissed and the bussboy was a happy camper.

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Almost forgot...the upside. Out of the entire time I was in that whole Reston Town Center area, that restaurant was the ONLY problem I had. At any given time in the evenings that whole place is PACKED because of all the food choices, live bands etc... I actually walked in front of a group of 5 or 6 local LEO's and not one of them made any issue over it. Nevermind the THOUSANDS of people I was mingling with. Was just a little surprising that that one little restaurant decided to make a big deal out of it.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  13. #13
    Member Array user's Avatar
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    I'd have to know more about the museum, but it seemed to me that's a federal facility, and it's on the grounds of a common carrier airport, right?
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

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  14. #14
    Senior Member Array TucAzRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    Hold on to your tray there skippy. IT WAS the server that brought over the manager. We(our group) reserved the patio area outside with no other restaurant patrons around. Everyone with the exception of the servers were inside. So only the servers would have called out the manager. Not to mention, servers not getting paid = servers quiting if they're smart which HURTS the restaurants bottom dollar in lost revenue due to having to retrain new hires that screw up everyones orders. In the long run, yes the servers are a direct impact on the business model. As to whether or not they do or don't get paid enough...WHO SIGNED THE EFFING EMPLOYMENT AGREEMENT?
    sorry, rant and rabbit trail off...
    HA HA HA... I saw that coming,. And I totally agree with this,. I'm a good tipper when it comes to everything coming together,. If I get food that is cooked bad, and I give a good tip nothing gets done about it,. But if I leave my food mostly uneaten and not much tip,. I'm sure they will figure it out and get another cook.. The Tip is the ONE things we can control.. We order food, we have to pay it,.. But I don't have to pay the tip,.. I feel bad for people that serve and gets the short end of the tip,. But!!!! .... If they are doing a good job and not getting tips, they need to find somewhere else to work,. Odds are it isn't all coming together (food, service, additude)

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TucAzRider View Post
    HA HA HA... I saw that coming,. And I totally agree with this,. I'm a good tipper when it comes to everything coming together,. If I get food that is cooked bad, and I give a good tip nothing gets done about it,. But if I leave my food mostly uneaten and not much tip,. I'm sure they will figure it out and get another cook.. The Tip is the ONE things we can control.. We order food, we have to pay it,.. But I don't have to pay the tip,.. I feel bad for people that serve and gets the short end of the tip,. But!!!! .... If they are doing a good job and not getting tips, they need to find somewhere else to work,. Odds are it isn't all coming together (food, service, additude)
    Actually, not even close on the tip issue.
    All 4 of my children have worked as servers in the food industry at one time or another. 3 of the 4 are now professionals in other areas, and the 4th is still a server.

    She came home from work a few nights ago, very upset.
    She had 12 tables. 5 of them did not tip her because the food came out wrong. It was ordered properly, the kitchen screwed it up. Her particular restaurant has had problems with this before. She tells management. Nothing is done.

    If you have a problem with the server, tell the server, then management if you think it is necessary.
    If you have a problem with the food, tell the server, then management. More than likely you will get something comped, it won't hurt the server if they did not cause the problem. And management will know what the real issue is. I have never had issues with how food was cooked, or how long it took, that management did not do something to make up for the problem.

    Establishments like restaurants cannot fix the issue if they don't know what it is. I suggest that the management be told in a courteous, but firm, manner. And things will almost always be rectified.

    Finally, go out and see how easy it is to find other jobs in this economy. Don't like the restaurant and their service? Tell the management and don't go back. But, don't dump on a server who is working his/her butt off and can't control management or the kitchen help.

    My way more than $.02.
    Last edited by miklcolt45; May 26th, 2009 at 04:39 PM. Reason: spelling
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
    Albert Einstein

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