Interesting LEO interaction tonight. - Page 3

Interesting LEO interaction tonight.

This is a discussion on Interesting LEO interaction tonight. within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have noticed in all but one of my own encounters with Law Enforcement, that if you are respectful, you get treated respectfully right back. ...

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Thread: Interesting LEO interaction tonight.

  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array Bunny's Avatar
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    I have noticed in all but one of my own encounters with Law Enforcement, that if you are respectful, you get treated respectfully right back. Simple courtesy goes a long way with a lot of folks. And 9 or more times out of 10, they really ARE there to help keep the peace and protect everyone.
    Don't frisk me, I am the weapon.


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  2. #32
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY27 View Post
    You're comments on this thread seem rather odd for someone in your profession and having law enforcement experience. It seems that you do not like any casual interaction with the police. I was in a community policing unit for a few years and we were encouraged to have "non enforcement" interaction with the public.

    Lighten up, Francis.
    My experiences are what got me to thinking the way I do. If an LEO stops to talk to you about something that you are doing, other than, say, "Hi, I like your new paint job on that barn," maybe, it is fraught with potential for trouble. LEOs are bound by law and procedure, and I'd like to keep it that way. Not all, but many LEOs are looking for a reason to arrest someone. It's their job, after all.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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  3. #33
    Member Array gilliland87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdcard View Post
    I think I'd have smiled, cocked my head a little and said "I am a local" in a lighthearted, slightly confused tone.

    Holdcard
    Funny you should mention that, I actually did just that trying to gauge why the officer had swung around to talk to me. It was accompanied by a finger point at my front door.

    I did not mean to open up this big of a can of worms with this post. As SIXTO suggested I figured I would just lay out my interaction with the LEO for others. Like most have said it was a meet and greet, no detainment or searches and seizures. It was an officer talking to me, He obviously chose to talk to me because I carry, but it was only talking.

  4. #34
    Member Array runamuk's Avatar
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    This is Arizona and it is perfectly legal to open carry with or without a permit. I see it every day and it is no big deal.

    The officer was merely guaging your response to giving your daughter a cool badge.............Been there while doing the same exact same thing and my 3 yr old son was totally gassed!

    The Cop never mentioned my gun though.

    Muk

  5. #35
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Sometimes they just want to know who you are. If you are a local let them know. Tell them you walk this route alot so they can let the other officers know. Might save both of ya some trouble in the future.

    Michael

  6. #36
    Senior Member Array Sportsterguy's Avatar
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    +2 Landric. Keeping the peace goes both ways.
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    Join the NRA today, or don't complain when your guns are taken away!

  7. #37
    Member Array BaserRonin's Avatar
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    Peace officer and Law Man are two totally separate beasts. Sounds like you got a peace officer politely checking out the situation, not a law man looking for an excuse to bust you.
    Interesting encounter.

  8. #38
    Member Array bauptown's Avatar
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    Walk in the Park

    If I am reading into this correctly, Arizona is a open carry state. If you were visibly carrying, the LEO might have a point

  9. #39
    Senior Member Array Devone6's Avatar
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    I have refrained from making this post before in other threads, but I have noticed that there is a group here who seem to take a subtle anti-LEO position. I have read posts from the same people in different threads, where after posting their thoughts, there is a disclaimer "I'm not anti-LEO, I'm not against cops, Not cop bashing, Nothing against police, but........." If you continually have to remind everyone that what you are saying is not what you really mean, maybe you:
    1) really do mean it but hate to admit it for whatever reason
    2) don't really know what you mean

    This is not towards any one individual, but just an observation I've made over a couple years of some members.

    The officer could have appraoched this differently, but didn't detain anyone, hold, anyone, or even bother anyone really. Just a casual encounter.

    Kentucky is an open carry state, and I was LEO, I guess when I saw a guy getting gas a row over from where I was fueling up wearing a gun, and I said "Hi, nice hogleg, you going hunting" and he replied "Nah, just going down to the cabin" I was actually infringing upon his rights by talking to him or asking a question.

    Holy crap, I didn't realize it, but I guess when a civilian came up to me and asked what type of gun/ammo etc. we carried, he had no reason to at all and was infringing on my rights!! Yeah I know, that is absurd and not consistant with the original post, but it is how some posters turn these encounters around.

    This encounter was a none issue. Come on guys, no harm no foul. I AM pro-gun, I AM pro-LEO, and I AM pro-concealed carry.

    I'm not just telling it like I hear it, that would be hearsay and don't count for much, my post is what I've read with my own eyes, and done myself.

    Pro-LEO or closet anti-LEO, to each his/her own I guess.
    My heroes are Veterans and My Father (who was a veteran).

    I believe prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance should have REMAINED in schools, and the Ten Commandments should have REMAINED in schools, courthouses, and everywhere else it was before the ACLU got involved.

  10. #40
    Member Array Tusk's Avatar
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    Smile Hell......be happy with it !!

    If it had happened to me.........Id be happy with it, seemed like a pretty kewl cop to me !!! But then again......there are those who wouldnt think so, guy could have been about it.....

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Based on posts I've read over the years, a lot here claim to have experience they do not, or have embellished or have told partial truths. Some have been scorned, by being fired, not hired or otherwise passed over. They choose to grind an axe in the only place they have an audience, but no worries. Its just the internet.

    This thread has nothing to do with illegal seizures, just a cop doing his job and a normal guy telling the story. Stop making mountains out of mole hills.
    I agree about the mole hill thing. Got to love that First Amendment. It allows lively debates like this to occur.

  12. #42
    Member Array theghostrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landric View Post
    It doesn't sound like a seizure based on what the OP wrote. The officer is stopped in a bike lane, so it makes sense to turn on emergency lights to warn traffic of his presence. Of course the OP said flashers, which could just as easily mean hazard lights, not emergency lights.

    However, lets assume they were emergency lights. Even so, how many pedestrians, when seeing a cruiser with lights activated, assume that the officer is signaling them to stop? Emergency lights turned on behind a vehicle generally represent a signal to stop and therefore a seizure. An officer turning on emergency lights when stopping in a place not generally intended for parking in order to speak to someone on a sidewalk, the side of the road, etc., is for warning traffic, not seizing the person.

    I do not expect a pedestrian to stop because I turn on my blue lights and pull to the side of the road. If I want them to stop, I'll address them. If I have reasonable suspicion or probable cause, I'll order the person to stop. Based on what the OP wrote, it doesn't sound like the officer ordered him to stop. Its natural for someone to stop when addressed, especially by someone in a position of authority like a LEO, but that doesn't make it a seizure in and of its self.

    The courts can't even really agree what a seizure is all the time, and even when they can, the definition changes pretty regularly.

    I'm not a lawyer or judge, but based on what I read, and my thirteen years experience as an LEO, I would say that based on what the OP wrote, he was not seized.
    I must be missing something then. I was basing my statement on what you said:
    That is because stopping someone to tell them not to break the law using blue lights would be an illegal seizure due to lack of reasonable suspicion.
    Now it sounds like you contradicting this.

  13. #43
    Distinguished Member Array PastorPack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaserRonin View Post
    Peace officer and Law Man are two totally separate beasts. Sounds like you got a peace officer politely checking out the situation, not a law man looking for an excuse to bust you.
    Interesting encounter.
    Hey, if a BG was walking a young girl down the street while open carrying and it turned out to be a real bad situation, how many would have asked where were the police? Don't we want the police to be vigilant and check on situations that draw their attention?
    God is love (1 John 4:8)

  14. #44
    Senior Member Array Holdcard's Avatar
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    Devone6

    Don't want to hijack the thread, but wanted to respond to your closet anti-LEO comments.

    I personally have respect for the people who do their job. However, there are bad ones, point makers, power trippers etc. out there. Granted the percentage may be small, but it does exist. Just like the officer treats everyone as a threat, yes the percentage may be small, but it does exist.

    I take the stance that I'll judge each person (LEO or not) based on their actions or reactions, not a bias against a specific group.

    Sometimes I may put the disclaimer "Not a bash" in my statements. I do this mainly to keep the real anti's from jumping in or at least using my comments to corroborate their prejudice.

    Example, when seconds count, LEO's arrive in minutes (not a bash, just a fact).

    It's a true statement, the point of my statement is that we need to be in possession of the tools necessary to defend ourselves and families. I am in no way accusing LEO of being negligent. I include the disclaimer to let people know my mindset.

    The truth is that LEO can not materialize when needed, therefore the potential for me to be on my own (at least for a few minutes) exists. We all know that the first few seconds of the encounter is when people either live or die.

    If I think the LEO did wrong I'll say so, and if I think they did right I'll say that too. While I think I understand what your trying to say and agree to some point I also think there's a lot of folks like me around here.

    Holdcard
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  15. #45
    Senior Member Array Devone6's Avatar
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    Holdcard,

    The truth is that LEO can not materialize when needed, therefore the potential for me to be on my own (at least for a few minutes) exists. We all know that the first few seconds of the encounter is when people either live or die.
    I absolutely agree, but LEO arrival time is not the case here or in 99% of the posts concerning LEO interaction in this forum. Remember, I said I was Pro-concealed carry, ( and should have just said carry, open too) for this as well as other reasons.
    If I think the LEO did wrong I'll say so, and if I think they did right I'll say that too
    I appreciate this, and respect you for it. And you are correct, there are a lot of folks like you around here, the majority.

    There is a group though who go to great lenghts to pick apart any LEO interaction, freindly or not, to establish infringement upon rights.

    On the thread topic-I'd say this probably was a compliant/call for the officer as the poster stated, and this was just the officer way of checking it out. He was friendly, may have even been trying to joke about the 20 officers thing, but some make this out to be a serious violation of rights. I didn't get anything other than a conversation from it. As I said in my first post, this is such a non issue, but some try to make it one. Even the original poster just wanted to know if our opinion was 1) could there have been a call ?, or 2) was the officer bored ? but we trail off in to whether or not there was detainment, legal seizure, resonable suspicion, illegal searches??? Check, all those were listed after the first post.

    Are there bad LEOs? of course. But it bothers me when some try to make a good LEO encounter, a good LEO, in to a bad one. Pay attention, and the same ones will repeatedly surface on this.

    Look what the intial poster himself says:
    I did not mean to open up this big of a can of worms with this post. As SIXTO suggested I figured I would just lay out my interaction with the LEO for others. Like most have said it was a meet and greet, no detainment or searches and seizures. It was an officer talking to me, He obviously chose to talk to me because I carry, but it was only talking.
    Now look where it went just a few posts in-something like you should have said "Don't even talk to me officer, or I'll complain if your harassment doesn't stop blah, blah, blah.........."It might be funny if it wasn't sad.

    Anyway, you weren't even it my mind when I made my post Holdcard, but I appreciate your response, I agree with your thought, judge each individually.

    gilliland87 Good post, pay no mind to all this, and keep handling things the way you did (really just a polite conversation right how did we get hear?-my fault sorry) and keep carrying. concealed or open!!
    My heroes are Veterans and My Father (who was a veteran).

    I believe prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance should have REMAINED in schools, and the Ten Commandments should have REMAINED in schools, courthouses, and everywhere else it was before the ACLU got involved.

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