Interesting LEO interaction tonight.

Interesting LEO interaction tonight.

This is a discussion on Interesting LEO interaction tonight. within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So my daughter and I are walking home after spending about an hour at the park tonight. While walking home we are at a stop ...

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Thread: Interesting LEO interaction tonight.

  1. #1
    Member Array gilliland87's Avatar
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    Interesting LEO interaction tonight.

    So my daughter and I are walking home after spending about an hour at the park tonight. While walking home we are at a stop sign waiting to cross and a police SUV turns left in front of us. As we are approaching our house the same SUV is heading back towards us (he blew around the block) About 15 ft before the SUV reaches us I see the officer pull into the bike lane and turn on his flashers. AS we reach the passenger window of the SUV the officer rolls it down and hollers "Ya ain't scaring the locals with that thing are you buddy?" I stop and face the officer and ask, "excuse me?" The officer replies your not scaring the locals with your gun are you?
    At this point I am thinking oh great I got a man with a gun call. I replied to the officer "no sir, just out to the park with my daughter."
    The officer puts the SUV n park and gets out to talk with me. Says "I know you are perfectly within your rights to carry your weapon and I'm not trying to hassle you, but someone will get scared and call it in and we will get a hot tone and you will have 20 officers swarming in."
    I said thanks for the warning and that hopefully those 20 officers knew the laws as well as he did. He said He understands carry a weapon and is a "pro gun guy" and explained again he wasn't hassling me just wanted to let me know, and suggest I get my permit. At which point I explained I have it in my wallet if he would like to see it . A little taken back the officer says no need and to have a nice night. Through the course of this all He also said hi to my daughter and gave her a Jr. officer badge and what not. Never once did he ask for ID or my permit and was rather laid back.
    Makes me wonder when put together with the 4 other officers passing up and down the street if there was a call and this was his way of handling it? Or if he was just bored?


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    Seem like a good Guy. Maybe some other Officers on the force may look at it different. He was giving You the heads up and may not want to see You get hassled. You were well within Your rights.

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    Seems like an overall good interaction, just hope they all go that smoothly
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
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    Member Array sspargo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilliland87 View Post
    Makes me wonder when put together with the 4 other officers passing up and down the street if there was a call and this was his way of handling it? Or if he was just bored?
    WOW! Four officers in that short period of time? Is that normal? I wish we could get that kind of service out of our officers around here!


    Dang-it...I keep forgetting, ***whispering to myself repeatedly***"When seconds count...""When seconds count...""When seconds count..."
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  5. #5
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    I'm getting a little tired of hearing stuff like this.

    "Just want to talk to you and tell you I will have to come talk to you if I get a call."

    My response might be, "So then go away and come back if you get a call, or better yet don't come back since you are already talking to me now. Since you have indicated that I am not the target of a detention or arrest, you are illegally detaining me, and I will make a complaint if this does not end immediately. Good day, Officer." Then continue walking.

    Do LEOs pull over cars and warn them not to speed or they will pull them over some more?

    Actually you're probably just jealous that you daughter got deputized but you didn't!
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    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post

    Actually you're probably just jealous that you daughter got deputized but you didn't!
    Not if he already has his CCW badge!


    :::::::Ducking out of here:::::::::::

  7. #7
    Distinguished Member Array Bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    I'm getting a little tired of hearing stuff like this.

    "Just want to talk to you and tell you I will have to come talk to you if I get a call."

    My response might be, "So then go away and come back if you get a call, or better yet don't come back since you are already talking to me now. Since you have indicated that I am not the target of a detention or arrest, you are illegally detaining me, and I will make a complaint if this does not end immediately. Good day, Officer." Then continue walking.

    Do LEOs pull over cars and warn them not to speed or they will pull them over some more?

    Actually you're probably just jealous that you daughter got deputized but you didn't!
    ROFL!

    Actually, what you say make a lot of sense. I've never herd of anyone pulled over to be told that if they speed, they'll get pulled over. Good illustration.
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    Ex Member Array GreenHorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedBeau View Post
    Not if he already has his CCW badge!


    :::::::Ducking out of here:::::::::::
    ZING!!!

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    Senior Member Array Landric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    I'm getting a little tired of hearing stuff like this.

    "Just want to talk to you and tell you I will have to come talk to you if I get a call."

    My response might be, "So then go away and come back if you get a call, or better yet don't come back since you are already talking to me now. Since you have indicated that I am not the target of a detention or arrest, you are illegally detaining me, and I will make a complaint if this does not end immediately. Good day, Officer." Then continue walking.

    Do LEOs pull over cars and warn them not to speed or they will pull them over some more?

    Actually you're probably just jealous that you daughter got deputized but you didn't!
    Except that the police, like anyone else, are perfectly within their rights to talk to anyone. They have to have reasonable suspicion to detain you, but walking up to you on the street and starting a conversation is not a detention. You don't have to stick around if you don't want to.

    Perhaps, rather than being a smart$#@, and making some statement like the above threatening a baseless complaint like "the mean officer came up to me in a public place and spoke to me", one should take the time to have a positive interaction with the officer and either start or reinforce his opinion that people who open carry are reasonable level headed people who are good to interact with.

    Of course, if one wants to be a jack$#@ and make gun owners look bad, that is, of course, an option.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunny View Post
    ROFL!

    Actually, what you say make a lot of sense. I've never herd of anyone pulled over to be told that if they speed, they'll get pulled over. Good illustration.
    That is because stopping someone to tell them not to break the law using blue lights would be an illegal seizure due to lack of reasonable suspicion. Speaking to someone on the street is not a seizure unless they are detained physically or otherwise reasonably believe they are not free to go.
    -Landric

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    Senior Member Array usmc3169's Avatar
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    +1 Landric
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    Member Array theghostrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landric View Post
    Except that the police, like anyone else, are perfectly within their rights to talk to anyone. They have to have reasonable suspicion to detain you, but walking up to you on the street and starting a conversation is not a detention. You don't have to stick around if you don't want to.

    Perhaps, rather than being a smart$#@, and making some statement like the above threatening a baseless complaint like "the mean officer came up to me in a public place and spoke to me", one should take the time to have a positive interaction with the officer and either start or reinforce his opinion that people who open carry are reasonable level headed people who are good to interact with.

    Of course, if one wants to be a jack$#@ and make gun owners look bad, that is, of course, an option.



    That is because stopping someone to tell them not to break the law using blue lights would be an illegal seizure due to lack of reasonable suspicion. Speaking to someone on the street is not a seizure unless they are detained physically or otherwise reasonably believe they are not free to go.
    In this case, it was an illegal seizure due to lack of reasonable suspicion.

    Quote Originally Posted by gilliland87 View Post
    So my daughter and I are walking home after spending about an hour at the park tonight. While walking home we are at a stop sign waiting to cross and a police SUV turns left in front of us. As we are approaching our house the same SUV is heading back towards us (he blew around the block) About 15 ft before the SUV reaches us I see the officer pull into the bike lane and turn on his flashers. AS we reach the passenger window of the SUV the officer rolls it down and hollers "Ya ain't scaring the locals with that thing are you buddy?" I stop and face the officer and ask, "excuse me?" The officer replies your not scaring the locals with your gun are you? ...
    The OP was detained, and apparently for the reason that he was open carrying. Other than using his flashers, it doesn't sound all that bad, except for the part where he told the OP to get a permit. Rather than the OP, "get a permit" maybe the officer should tell his coworkers to not hassle the OP.
    That isn't said as a hostile or defensive comment. More and more people are starting to OC, and more and more people are starting to learn their rights (particular concerning 4th Amendment).

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array Landric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theghostrider View Post
    In this case, it was an illegal seizure due to lack of reasonable suspicion.



    The OP was detained, and apparently for the reason that he was open carrying. Other than using his flashers, it doesn't sound all that bad, except for the part where he told the OP to get a permit. Rather than the OP, "get a permit" maybe the officer should tell his coworkers to not hassle the OP.
    That isn't said as a hostile or defensive comment. More and more people are starting to OC, and more and more people are starting to learn their rights (particular concerning 4th Amendment).
    It doesn't sound like a seizure based on what the OP wrote. The officer is stopped in a bike lane, so it makes sense to turn on emergency lights to warn traffic of his presence. Of course the OP said flashers, which could just as easily mean hazard lights, not emergency lights.

    However, lets assume they were emergency lights. Even so, how many pedestrians, when seeing a cruiser with lights activated, assume that the officer is signaling them to stop? Emergency lights turned on behind a vehicle generally represent a signal to stop and therefore a seizure. An officer turning on emergency lights when stopping in a place not generally intended for parking in order to speak to someone on a sidewalk, the side of the road, etc., is for warning traffic, not seizing the person.

    I do not expect a pedestrian to stop because I turn on my blue lights and pull to the side of the road. If I want them to stop, I'll address them. If I have reasonable suspicion or probable cause, I'll order the person to stop. Based on what the OP wrote, it doesn't sound like the officer ordered him to stop. Its natural for someone to stop when addressed, especially by someone in a position of authority like a LEO, but that doesn't make it a seizure in and of its self.

    The courts can't even really agree what a seizure is all the time, and even when they can, the definition changes pretty regularly.

    I'm not a lawyer or judge, but based on what I read, and my thirteen years experience as an LEO, I would say that based on what the OP wrote, he was not seized.
    -Landric

    "The Engine could still smile...it seemed to scare them" -Felix

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    Member Array Tiny85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theghostrider View Post
    In this case, it was an illegal seizure due to lack of reasonable suspicion.



    The OP was detained, and apparently for the reason that he was open carrying. Other than using his flashers, it doesn't sound all that bad, except for the part where he told the OP to get a permit. Rather than the OP, "get a permit" maybe the officer should tell his coworkers to not hassle the OP.
    That isn't said as a hostile or defensive comment. More and more people are starting to OC, and more and more people are starting to learn their rights (particular concerning 4th Amendment).
    lets replace the LEO with your grandmother, was anything in the OP something she couldn't have done? if your grandmother pulled over and started a conversation with this individual who was walking with his daughter would she be Illegally detaining him?

    No where in the OP is there any use of the LEO's authority. I support your right to freedom of speech but please if you insist on acting like an @ss hat to LEO's please leave your gun at home your making the rest of us look bad.
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    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theghostrider View Post
    The OP was detained, and apparently for the reason that he was open carrying. Other than using his flashers, it doesn't sound all that bad, except for the part where he told the OP to get a permit. Rather than the OP, "get a permit" maybe the officer should tell his coworkers to not hassle the OP.
    As as been explained, the OP wasn't detained. I would prefer to address this odd notion of hassled (A '60s word whose users are usually offensive.)

    Starting a conversation with someone is not inconveniencing someone. If you open a door for a woman and she thanks you, would that be considered being hassled? Or a coworker asks if you saw the local team compete yesterday, is that being hassled? After all, an unwanted word was spoke to you. The fact is that some are afraid of police. They are cowed by the authority police have. For some reason they think they have equal authority to police officers. These people lash out when approached, whether it be for identification or for a friendly conversation and warning.

    That isn't said as a hostile or defensive comment. More and more people are starting to OC, and more and more people are starting to learn their rights (particular concerning 4th Amendment).
    It seems that most people who think they understand the fourth Amendment really haven't a clue...The operative word is 'reasonable.' And the Founders intended it to only apply to the Federal government.

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    The Police are people... they come in all kinds!
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