Hooksett, NH cop acts belligerent and uses profanity to Law-Abiding Citizen for OCing

[CEW58]

The guy is not breaking any law and he does have the right to open carry. But he is trying, in his own way, to help our cause or prove a point by seeing what kind of reaction he can get out of the cops. He says so on the video. The cops are, for the most part, being cooperative and respectful, but he wants to just keep pushing. I think his time could be better spent doing what someone else mentioned. Have an open carry bbq or something.
What he's doing is perfectly legal, he knows it and the cops know it. So whats the point?? You watch the video and its like a little kid " Hey watch this. Check out the rreaction I get out of this cop".... Give me a break.....

If I understand correctly the police in that town have a habit of stopping OCers, and that is what he wanted to document. If the police in a certain town are hostile to a certain actions even if they are legal, then perhaps it needs to be documented?

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[SleepingZ]

Legal? Perhaps. Smart? Not really. Is it legal to walk on a train track? Sure. Is it the smart thing to do when the train is coming? No.




In Doobies video,I did not see anyone being detained, harassed or even interrogated. Are you taking about a different scenario?

Doobie was not detained. He certainly wasn't harassed and he dang sure wasn't interrogated.
Granted, the cop was a bit unprofessional with his choice of words, but that is about the only mistake I saw on his part. It is the cop's job to respond to a call put out by the dispatcher. You cant just pick and choose which calls to respond to and which not to. The person of interest sets the tone of the stop.
How the stop progresses is up to that person. Be polite and you will be treated politley. Act stupid and you will be treated like you are stupid.

Its a simple thing really.

It is not legal to walk on train tracks, private property.

[Bunny]

there are definitely "good" cops out there. just few and far between.

Um, dunno if I read that right or not, but that seems to be a sweeping generalization and a pretty negative portrait of LEOs in general. This thread seems to have gone from a post/video about an encounter while OCing, to whether the OP's tactics are helping or hurting the cause, to cop-bashing? Not cool.

Ok, I'm out. No reason to come back to this thread anymore.

[SelfDefense]

If you post something online about pro-2A / OC, and can't get a pro-gun crowd to agree with your tatics, the feedback and criticism of that pro-gun group should carry some weight.

After hundreds of posts and thousands of views this is at least a fresh idea. It is certainly clear that some support immature, childish behavior that damages our image. And, as anyone who has ever taught understands, those unwilling to learn will not learn and justify their own incorrect ideas no matter how often people try.

After all these posts NONE of these LEO baiters have ever identified what their objective is. We read 'their methods' in many posts but not a single poster has been able to identify the goal. From my perspecitive, the goal is to create a long thread in a gun forum and get fifteen minutes of fame with a nonsensical utube video. That is a popular hobby with children and juveniles.

In the final analysis, this has nothing to do with 'rights' as open carry is not illegal. Trolling for trouble can have no good outcome. The fact is the the OP loves the attention, especially ones that explain to him why his behavior is wrong. He craves negative attention. It certainly sounds like a disorder that could be treated by professionals.

I'm willing to believe the person in the vid is trying to do something positive for the cause (be it OC or 2A).

Really? What do you think could be positive about causing trouble and wasting the time of LE?

But again, If so many from a a form like this site believes it could have done better and has done little to help (or perhaps has hindered) the cause, the goal, the education of the general public, must not have been accomplished.

Like the OP, the public does not want to be educated. And to think a childish act will educate an adut law enforcement officer is so far from reality as to be laughable.

Hope things improve in NH.

I hope law enforcement in NH do not have to deal with uncooperative jerks. Given the current environment, I imagine they will have even more problems with the grown up children.

[Holdcard]

I think the officer would have went on red alert.

The guy is walking around with a gun. Now he refuses to respond to the officer. Flag # 1.

You dont know his intent, you dont know where he is going. He turns his back on you. Flag #2

He refuses any further communication.
Flag #3.

Does this sound like the average Joe Blow walking around? A normal person would know and understand that he needs to talk to the cop. Doobie was smart enough to realize that, so it didnt go that far.

I am as pro-gun as they come, but I am not taking any chances. After the second or third request to communicate, I will be looking at him over gun sights next.

Any man with a gun call is not to be taken lightly. It may be legal, it may be illegal. If its legal, that is one thing. Acting the fool is another. Refusing to respons to an armed officer requesting that you speak to him is not only foolish and irresponsible, but dangerous.

Thinking otherwise is to ignore reality.

I do understand your reasoning and would support your logic. As previously stated both parties seemed to start the encounter in confrontation mode. I don't believe that was right on either side.

I'm trying to understand the actual legality and reality of the event. He was within his rights, was free to go at any time but if he tried to leave may have found himself at gunpoint.

It's one thing to say he was legally free to go, but in a real sense he was not. To me this seems like a catch 22 situation for all parties involved. In a way I think I could make a good argument for either side.

As a citizen Doobie did not break the law, was not legally bound to answer any questions. Other than attitude, which I don't think is a legal offense (moral maybe) he did nothing that should put him on the business end of an officers firearm.

On the other side, he was acting somewhat suspicious, confrontational, obviously armed and there was a call the officer needed to handle. Heck, I'm not even a cop and I would have been uneasy in this situation just as a bystander.

Personally if I had the passion that Doobie does for 'education and public awareness' I'd look for a less confrontational way. Trolling like this and posting videos may produce a following, but I doubt it's a following that will do his cause much good. I like the idea of scheduled open carry events where the press and local law enforcement are informed and invited to participate.

I think if an event was planned right and involved the local law enforcement agencies (plural), he may even generate some support from those agencies. If he could get the press there (and they actually air it) that also would be a big step in the right direction.

That type of event would generate a following that would further his cause from both LEO's and the general public.

Holdcard

[kpw]

Um, dunno if I read that right or not, but that seems to be a sweeping generalization and a pretty negative portrait of LEOs in general. This thread seems to have gone from a post/video about an encounter while OCing, to whether the OP's tactics are helping or hurting the cause, to cop-bashing? Not cool.

Ok, I'm out. No reason to come back to this thread anymore.

I'm thinking he typed that wrong. Hoping anyways.

As for my post, stating there are some bad individuals is not cop bashing by a long shot. The interaction with OCers goes both ways, good and bad and it's not always the OCers fault. There are also bad doctors, bad lawyers and bad sanitation engineers. Why is stating that ok but saying there are bad LEOs is verbotten?

[HotGuns]

On the other side, he was acting somewhat suspicious, confrontational, obviously armed and there was a call the officer needed to handle. Heck, I'm not even a cop and I would have been uneasy in this situation just as a bystander.

Thats right. doobie got lucky. What if it was a cop that had just passed his FTO and it was his first day out by himself? How do you think he would have acted?

Lots of potential to go very badly here. Fortunately it didn't. If the whole thing did go wrong it would have been a very hard lesson to learn.

[Dal1Celt]

Um, dunno if I read that right or not, but that seems to be a sweeping generalization and a pretty negative portrait of LEOs in general. This thread seems to have gone from a post/video about an encounter while OCing, to whether the OP's tactics are helping or hurting the cause, to cop-bashing? Not cool.

Ok, I'm out. No reason to come back to this thread anymore.

Yup, I think that about sums it up for me.

[CEW58]

As a whole.... I agree. If you've never had a bad experience with an officer, I can see where your coming from. I've dealt with a couple unpleasant individuals and two that were downright azzhats that planted a beer bottle in my car and lied about me drinking so I wouldn't fight a ticket. One later went to jail for beating the crap out of his girlfriend. I could go on but the point I'm trying to make is that for every one of THOSE cops, I've met and interacted with dozens that were nothing but professional, courteous and polite. If you've never had to deal with any of the former, your lucky. Like I said, few and far between but you don't forget them.

I think you've hit on one of the reasons there is such wide disagreement here. If you've never had a bad LEO experience, or happen to be a LEO you might tend to say, "Let the cops do what they think they have to. It's for our own good." But if you've ever had a bad LEO experience (and I have) then you might be more inclined to say, "Make sure the LEO's operate completely within the law and add nothing to it".

Most of the police are good people trying to do a rough job. I have two brothers that are former LEOs and three nephews that still are. But there are a few out there who think that they are there to lord over us and make us comply to all their demands even if the law doesn't require us to.

Many years ago I was stationed in one of those stereotypical military towns. I happened to belong to an organization that one of the local police Captains belonged to. I made a statement at a meeting that he didn't like and we ended up getting into a heated argument over it.

Two weeks later he and 8 other police officers executed a search warrant at my house. They didn't find anything, but scared the daylights out of my wife and small children and tore the house apart. During the course of the search one of the detectives present pulled me off to the side and in so many words told me, "I'm only here because I have to be. Not my idea". Nothing illegal was found, I was never charged or arrested, but the point was clear. A couple of days later this same Captain called me at home and made further threats, including threats against my life if I crossed paths with him again. He also said that next time they would find something illegal, even if they had to bring it with them.

At the time I had a high security clearance so I reported all of this immediately to my chain of command. This caused the military to conduct their own investigation, and suddenly the Police Captain decided it was time to retire. So for those out there who think the police always act in the best interests of the public, think again.

[kpw]

After hundreds of posts and thousands of views this is at least a fresh idea. It is certainly clear that some support immature, childish behavior that damages our image. And, as anyone who has ever taught understands, those unwilling to learn will not learn and justify their own incorrect ideas no matter how often people try.

After all these posts NONE of these LEO baiters have ever identified what their objective is. We read 'their methods' in many posts but not a single poster has been able to identify the goal. From my perspecitive, the goal is to create a long thread in a gun forum and get fifteen minutes of fame with a nonsensical utube video. That is a popular hobby with children and juveniles.

In the final analysis, this has nothing to do with 'rights' as open carry is not illegal. Trolling for trouble can have no good outcome. The fact is the the OP loves the attention, especially ones that explain to him why his behavior is wrong. He craves negative attention. It certainly sounds like a disorder that could be treated by professionals.



Really? What do you think could be positive about causing trouble and wasting the time of LE?



Like the OP, the public does not want to be educated. And to think a childish act will educate an adut law enforcement officer is so far from reality as to be laughable.




I hope law enforcement in NH do not have to deal with uncooperative jerks. Given the current environment, I imagine they will have even more problems with the grown up children.

From what I recall, you made similar statements about the Dickson City bunch last year in PA. In the past year, things have changed dramatically in Dickson City and PA...for the better. PA officers have had manditory MPOTEC on OC issues and interaction with OCers. Negative interactions seem to have decreased dramatically. Training made the difference and it was that group and others like them that pushed for that training. Here in PA, it's "thank God" for those uncooperative jerks.

[CEW58]

I do not think so. I think that in order to have a negative interaction you need to be uncooperative and evasive with LEO.

Think again. You've been lucky.

After hundreds of posts and thousands of views this is at least a fresh idea. It is certainly clear that some support immature, childish behavior that damages our image. And, as anyone who has ever taught understands, those unwilling to learn will not learn and justify their own incorrect ideas no matter how often people try.

It is also very clear that there are those that support the idea that we should always yield to authority figures, no matter what they do.

[Tiny85]

As a whole.... I agree. If you've never had a bad experience with an officer, I can see where your coming from. I've dealt with a couple unpleasant individuals and two that were downright azzhats that planted a beer bottle in my car and lied about me drinking so I wouldn't fight a ticket. One later went to jail for beating the crap out of his girlfriend. I could go on but the point I'm trying to make is that for every one of THOSE cops, I've met and interacted with dozens that were nothing but professional, courteous and polite. If you've never had to deal with any of the former, your lucky. Like I said, few and far between but you don't forget them.

I can understand this stance. I have never been a police officer but I have had bad experiences with some. However my thinking would be that these people, who feel police are predisposed to abusing their authority, would try and avoid police encounters not seek them out to exploit them and there by gain some fame on youtube.

Doobie just be glad you haven't truelly run into a bad cop yet
Doobies final video

[doobie]

I do not think so. I think that in order to have a negative interaction you need to be uncooperative and evasive with LEO.

I cooperated with the police the first time and had the shirt around my waist taken without my permission and after I said no. I had my wallet taken without my permission after I said, no I would get it and give him my ID. I had my wallet OPENED and searched through after I asked for it to be handed to me so I could give him the ID... That was my first experience. And I was VERY if not TOO cooperative. The next time I was still cooperative but only giving my name. The next time I very quickly refused and explained why I refused to give my name. The fourth time I refused but had a chat with the officer for a few minutes about OCing and such. The 5th time I again refused. This incident was the 6th time. The officer was clearly hostile in my opinion and I tried to remain calm with his use of profanity and in my opinion inappropriate tone of voice when he had no reason to believe I had done anything wrong.

No man is greater than me, no man is less than me. We're all equal, and if you try to put yourself higher than me I will not respect you, nor will I answer your questions. I did unfortunately near the end break down and start answering his questions. A mistake that won't happen again.

[HotGuns]

I'm trying to understand the actual legality and reality of the event.

You have to understand that a cop that gets a call doesn't know what is going on until he gets there. We get calls that involve guns frequently. You just don't know how the person is going to respond and you really cant assume anything.
Not responding to a question, or responding in a less than favorable way is going to get a less than favorable response.

What would have happened had Doobie made a smart cynical remark to the cop and without even thinking put his hand on his gun? Its a dangerous situation all around that alot of people take lightly because they have never been put in a situation like that and because they don't think. When I respond to posts like this, I try to make people understand that there is alot more going on than what they know. Hopefully some of my posts will give some insight to what goes through this cops mind when he encounters some of the situations that we read about here. If someone actually pauses to think of the potential consequences of their actions before they act, instead of after, then its a good thing.

[ccw9mm]

That is the point! You cannot tell the difference between a thug and a law abiding citizen.

Yes, one can ... via the actual actions committed.