Hooksett, NH cop acts belligerent and uses profanity to Law-Abiding Citizen for OCing - Page 17

Hooksett, NH cop acts belligerent and uses profanity to Law-Abiding Citizen for OCing

This is a discussion on Hooksett, NH cop acts belligerent and uses profanity to Law-Abiding Citizen for OCing within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Dal1Celt I'm not sure I understand this. Think hard and try to visualize freedom. Originally Posted by Dal1Celt Can you walk around ...

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Thread: Hooksett, NH cop acts belligerent and uses profanity to Law-Abiding Citizen for OCing

  1. #241
    New Member Array Porcupine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dal1Celt View Post
    I'm not sure I understand this.
    Think hard and try to visualize freedom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dal1Celt View Post
    Can you walk around in NH with a fire arm and NOT have an ID??
    Yes. We don't live in North Korea. My identity is not relevant to anything. I'm innocent until proven guilty.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dal1Celt View Post
    I'm not against OCing, but I think if you do you should have an ID on you and if you don't and you get detained, I'd expect that you get cuffed and taken to the station until such time that you can be properly identified and cleared.
    Uhh...what would I get arrested for?? What crime? Who was hurt?

    In New Hampshire, I'm not even required to carry my license to conceal a pistol if I'm concealing. There's not even a state database of carry licenses. It's not a completely free state, but it's more free than most.
    "I am a friend of the Free State Project. Check it out...and if you like it, join and continue the effort!" -- Ron Paul

    http://freestateproject.org/


  2. #242
    New Member Array LFoD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    Actually it's scarey enough just seeing how many of our own condone it. When it comes to preserving our rights and heading off idiotic gun legislation we could be our own worst enemy.
    sorry but what is the problem with openly carrying a weapon again?

    also worth noting: up in NH there have been SEVERAL group organized open carry litter pick ups. so whats the issue?

  3. #243
    Senior Member Array CEW58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    Actually it's scarey enough just seeing how many of our own condone it. When it comes to preserving our rights and heading off idiotic gun legislation we could be our own worst enemy.
    Are your gun rights all you worry about? What about all the others? if you surrender them, how long do you think it will be before they take your guns away too?
    The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. ~ Albert Einstein

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  4. #244
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFoD View Post
    sorry but what is the problem with openly carrying a weapon again?

    also worth noting: up in NH there have been SEVERAL group organized open carry litter pick ups. so whats the issue?
    I don't think you have been following the thread. Openly carrying a gun per se is not the issue, but I'm not going to explain all that again in this thread.

  5. #245
    Senior Member Array CEW58's Avatar
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    I'm going to make this my last post on this thread, and then the rest can beat this dead horse if you want to.

    Many here seem to think Doobie's actions threaten our 2A rights. But there is more to being an American than just the right to keep and bear arms. When a police officer asks you for ID and he has no legal reason to demand ID, he is in effect telling you to prove you are not a criminal. Because once he has your ID he can run a check and see if you have any warrents.

    I know, a lot of you will say "I'd be happy to prove I'm not a criminal!" But in this country there is supposed to be a presumption of being innocent. Many seem to forget that.

    It won't do any of us much good to worry about the 2A but forget about our other freedoms. I've been in a police state. I don't think any of us would like it too much. Well, maybe some would.
    The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. ~ Albert Einstein

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  6. #246
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CEW58 View Post
    Are your gun rights all you worry about? What about all the others? if you surrender them, how long do you think it will be before they take your guns away too?
    If they take away your guns how long do you think your other rights will last?

  7. #247
    Distinguished Member Array orangevol's Avatar
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    How many times can we keep beating this

    Mr. Moderator...I beseech you...please close this thread!!!

  8. #248
    New Member Array LFoD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    If they take away your guns how long do you think your other rights will last?
    if they come to take away my guns good luck to them. ha.

  9. #249
    New Member Array LFoD's Avatar
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    if you have broken no law you do not need to produce and ID. If an officer doesnt like that I guess it is too bad for him huh?

  10. #250
    Ex Member Array Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFoD View Post
    if you have broken no law you do not need to produce and ID. If an officer doesnt like that I guess it is too bad for him huh?
    You don't have to like the law, merely obey it, cop or citizen.

    I don't have to like that I can't carry into an establishment with a Class D liquor license in Ohio. I just have to obey the law which forbids it. Likewise, the cop doesn't have to like that I'm legally entitled to carry openly, to not carry ID, and to record any conversations in which I'm a participant. He just as to recognize that that's the case. If either of us acts contrary to the law, we shouldn't profess to be surprised when there are consequences.

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe45 View Post
    A quick glance at FL versus NH gun laws tells me that we might just know a few more things about the subject, up here. I realize that you've been fighting an uphill battle, down there but, up here, we haven't had to. When some punk legislator proposes a restriction, we completely pack the State House, hang out chatting guns for the day, and the proposal dies horribly when it comes to vote.
    A quick glance at the recent history (last 20 years or so) of carrying weapons I keep seeing FL as the torch bearer for the freedoms recovered and making it mainstream. Not much can be found coming from NH. I think it would be fair to say we may know a thing or two more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe45 View Post
    Why can they portray "us" that way?

    Because the only portrayal many folks have of those who carry guns is cops and bad guys. If they don't ever see their friendly neighbor carrying a gun, they don't realize who actually carries. If, on the other hand, they've seen their dentist in the grocery store, and their mechanic coaching kids' soccer, and the little old lady down the street watering her rose bushes, and all those fine, upstanding individuals were armed, are they going to believe the Brady Bunch when they say that only rednecks and criminals carry guns?
    Great description but unfortunately do not correspond to the image we saw in the video of a young pup who admits going out and baiting cops just to satisfy his ego.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe45 View Post
    Walking down the street is "grandstanding," but intentionally causing an altercation is laudable behavior?
    I thought he was in the business of affirming the the rights enumerated in the Second Amendment. Many here have praised him as NH's version of Rosa Parks. Great rewards come only after taking great risks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe45 View Post
    To convert your story to match the present situation, I suppose you would be "impressed" if he started shooting into the air and screaming incoherently? That's all I can imagine you mean from your use of that story...

    Joe
    No, I wouldn't be impressed, but I wouldn't be surprised if he pulled a stunt like that either. The narrowness of mind displayed so far makes me think it would be a likely scenario if the spotlight suddenly turned somewhere else and not on him. Ego Seekers seem to go to extreme lengths to be in the aforementioned spotlight.

    Each and everyone of those crying foul and hiding behind "It is my right!" and "Papers Please" still fail to see the importance of attracting people to our side to make it stronger. You guys complain that the cop should know the law, but how many laws are there in the books that they are supposed to enforce? Do you think they know them all? Layers and judges have, assistants, para legals and LIBRARIES so they can consult the law and nobody even wonders about it but according to you the average cop must be up to date with each and every legal nuance. Are you guys seriously that naive?

    And what is with the idea that being polite is somehow giving up rights?

    Now a couple of questions: Has Doobie done anything to address the apparent lack of knowledge of officer? Has he sent a letter to the police chief indicating the appropriate chapters of NH law and jurisprudence regarding OC? Has he requested that an internal memo be issued to all officers enlightening them into this particular issue? Because so far what I've seen is the sudden registration of Doobie Cheerleaders to this forum and no many steps to correct the alleged problem he has gone out of his way to publicize.

    So far what Doobie has achieved is to radicalize people against Open Carry for the simple reason that he will be used as an example of irresponsible behavior that will affect all gun owners and we will be dammed if we let our rights be curtailed because he sees himself as a Civil Rights Leader with a bad shave.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

  12. #252
    New Member Array Joe45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy View Post
    A quick glance at the recent history (last 20 years or so) of carrying weapons I keep seeing FL as the torch bearer for the freedoms recovered and making it mainstream. Not much can be found coming from NH. I think it would be fair to say we may know a thing or two more.
    And yet, you have:
    -waiting periods enshrined in your state constitution, as well as felony penalties for violating same
    -massive restrictions on open carry
    -extremely restrictive CCW licensing which is expensive ($85 versus $10), offensive (fingerprints, like a common criminal?), age-restrictive (21 in FL versus no limit, with parental permission for those under 18, in NH), and otherwise just plain offensive
    -extreme restrictions on where you can carry (the NRA-ILA has a list on their site), versus the singular exception of courthouses, in NH (seriously, you guys can't even carry when in the legislative building, town hall, or polling places? you have to disarm just to go and talk to your supposed-representatives?)

    Do you really want me to go on?

    Sounds like you have a lot of freedom left to "recover." We don't have much of anything to recover, because we never let them strip our freedom, in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy View Post
    Great description but unfortunately do not correspond to the image we saw in the video of a young pup who admits going out and baiting cops just to satisfy his ego.
    Interesting. Walking down the street is "baiting" and done for "ego satisfaction," in your world?

    I'm presuming that he feels that documenting abuse is worthwhile. I feel that volunteering my time as a firearms instructor is worthwhile. Would you say that I am an instructor for the purposes of "ego satisfaction?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy View Post
    I thought he was in the business of affirming the the rights enumerated in the Second Amendment. Many here have praised him as NH's version of Rosa Parks. Great rewards come only after taking great risks.
    Hmmm... apparently, he must not be seeking great rewards. There goes that "ego satisfaction" claim, eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy View Post
    Each and everyone of those crying foul and hiding behind "It is my right!" and "Papers Please" still fail to see the importance of attracting people to our side to make it stronger.
    And we'll achieve that by hiding in the shadows like we're ashamed of being gun owners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy View Post
    You guys complain that the cop should know the law, but how many laws are there in the books that they are supposed to enforce? Do you think they know them all? Layers and judges have, assistants, para legals and LIBRARIES so they can consult the law and nobody even wonders about it but according to you the average cop must be up to date with each and every legal nuance. Are you guys seriously that naive?
    Not knowing every detail of every nuance of the codes related to chicken-farming (or whatever) is not the same as not knowing the most very basic details of a stop. Not knowing the former is understandable (and they can easily look it up, if needed). Not knowing the latter is gross incompetence. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy View Post
    And what is with the idea that being polite is somehow giving up rights?
    Being polite isn't the same as giving up rights. However, as others noted, respect is earned. Some power-tripping egomaniac cop who displays gross incompetence is not worthy of respect. Would I have responded in the same way? Probably not, but I'm inclined to enjoy ripping someone apart quietly and thoroughly, rather than getting into a shouting match. Regardless of whether I would stoop to his level, I certainly wouldn't have shown him any respect. I just would have been more sedate about explaining his character faults to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy View Post
    Now a couple of questions: Has Doobie done anything to address the apparent lack of knowledge of officer? Has he sent a letter to the police chief indicating the appropriate chapters of NH law and jurisprudence regarding OC? Has he requested that an internal memo be issued to all officers enlightening them into this particular issue? Because so far what I've seen is the sudden registration of Doobie Cheerleaders to this forum and no many steps to correct the alleged problem he has gone out of his way to publicize.
    I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly contact them to complain. I know that there was a similar incident in Manchester, a while back, and the mayor got on the police chief about proper training, in order to avoid a Federal lawsuit. There was an instance a number of years ago in which the publicity that was generated caused the governor to get involved. I do hear that Concord has been training their officers a bit better, in response to similar events.

    I can't speak for Doobie, but I know that's the sort of reason that I think documenting these abuses is a good idea. NH residents, in general, think well of LEO's. Without documentation of abuse, they generally will side with the LEO's. They also think highly of their rights and freedoms, so with documentation of abuse, they generally demand change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy View Post
    So far what Doobie has achieved is to radicalize people against Open Carry for the simple reason that he will be used as an example of irresponsible behavior that will affect all gun owners and we will be dammed if we let our rights be curtailed because he sees himself as a Civil Rights Leader with a bad shave.
    Who has he "radicalized," though? Maybe I'm just confused because I actually life here and all, but I haven't seen that. This particular incident is too recent, but I know that the Manchester incident saw a number of folks standing up and saying that they dislike guns, but disliked abusive police more, and were going to demand that the police obey their own laws. From what I've seen, actually living here, these sort of incidents have gotten non-gun-owners involved in a positive way.

    Maybe the reaction would be different, where you are, but that's what it's been, here.

    Joe

  13. #253
    Senior Member Array Sergeant Mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Respect goes both ways.
    I think that a lot of people confuse respect with courtesy.

    I actually respect very few people. That DOES have to be earned. I do my damnedest to treat EVERYONE with courtesy, though. They've earned that simply by having been born.

  14. #254
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergeant Mac View Post
    I think that a lot of people confuse respect with courtesy.

    I actually respect very few people. That DOES have to be earned. I do my damnedest to treat EVERYONE with courtesy, though. They've earned that simply by having been born.
    That's very well stated.

  15. #255
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    I am closing this thead, I think that everything that needs to be said has been said repeatedly and nothing can be gained by it remaining open.

    If you have a problem with me closing this thread than PM Bumper or QKShooter.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

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