Hooksett, NH cop acts belligerent and uses profanity to Law-Abiding Citizen for OCing

This is a discussion on Hooksett, NH cop acts belligerent and uses profanity to Law-Abiding Citizen for OCing within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by SelfDefense I don't disagree that some are fightened by guns and call the police for no good reason . That should not ...

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Thread: Hooksett, NH cop acts belligerent and uses profanity to Law-Abiding Citizen for OCing

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    I don't disagree that some are fightened by guns and call the police for no good reason. That should not eleicit a dismissive response from LEO.
    Here we disagree.

    It is praiseworthy to be vigilant; quite another to attempt to entrap LEO into an abuse.
    And quite another to do what this person appears to have done: walked down a busy avenue, while simply knowing the likelihood of LEO's making contact, despite no (apparent) incitement of his own. If people unwittingly show their colors when not otherwise lured into a situation, that's not entrapment; that's factually recording what occurred completely as a result of people being what they are, doing what they do ... not having been forced, lured or entrapped into do that. Big difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    What if this guy were to be stopped and questioned while walking down the street without being armed...would that be OK?

    Is it the legal firearm that made the difference?

    How about if he were to wear a Jesus shirt, would that be OK?

    How about if he was black, would that be OK?

    How about if he wore a 'U.S. flag shirt', could he be stopped then?

    Perhaps skipping down the street; stop him for questioning?
    Yup. It's that clear and simple. That's the slippery slope, since one cannot then know where it'll stop. NO upstanding person wants to experience a thuggish society of that sort, in which everyone's a criminal before having done a damned thing.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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  3. #32
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    When looking for trouble, you sometimes find it. I fail to see how this helps the cause, it only makes you and the rest of the OC crowd look like an ass. Way to go Doobie.

    Please explain how this hobby of poking bears with sticks is going to result in a positive outcome.

    With that said, I really dont care one way or another about OC. Its your baby, do with it as you wish.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  4. #33
    Member Array grandma4's Avatar
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    I guess I have a problem with this guy because 1. he does this all the time 2. He goes looking to get stopped or else he wouldn't have his camera going. 3. He gets the attention of what 2000 or so on this forum although we already know that we have a problem with the sheep (which by the way, he just makes that worse), and although this officer was in the wrong for using profanity, he actually told him he was free to go and that he was not being detained so I don't get why this guy says he was. If I, a woman had stopped him on the street and asked him what he was doing with cameras and a gun, would that be considered I detained him?

    I still think the officer had a responsibility to act on the calls they had received about this guy. That is his job. One thing that we forget is that there is a problem with people who see guns, they read every day where someone is killed with one. Our job is to educate them in a way that does not alienate them. I just personally do not like stunts like this.

    If you read the post on here there are many divided on what he did. If we can't agree what do you think it does to people who are not as educated on gun laws as we are?
    2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

  5. #34
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    How the officer acted was reprehensible but IMHO no worse then your actions. If you go looking for trouble you will get no sympathy from me when you find it. You sir are acting like a troll and what a troll has to say is of little consequence.


    Edited as to not offend anyone
    Last edited by Tiny85; June 6th, 2009 at 02:56 PM.
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  6. #35
    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    Whether or not the public should have been alarmed, they were, and according to the officer in the recording, there were multiple reports of concern about Doobie walking down the road with a gun. Under Chapter 644 of the New Hampshire Revised Statutes Annotated, Breaches of the Peace and Related Offenses (provided below), the police had a duty to investigate the reports.

    While I don't object, as some do, to Doobie's walking around to see if anyone would respond. I do think the blatant trolling (walking back and forth along the road until someone responds or time runs out) escalated the problem, by being suspicious behavior to the locals. It wasn't a natural case of OC (i.e., someone going about normal, everyday business), but a very contrived one, where the sole purpose was to display the gun. Of course, if he had just been going about his business, people might not have noticed.

    When stopped so the police could investigate this guy wandering (apparently) aimlessly down the road with a gun, Doobie definitely did not help things by being evasive and refusing to answer basic questions the responding officers were required to ask by law. The officer quickly became frustrated at the lack of cooperation, and then showed a certain lack of professionalism by allowing his frustration through, expressed through f-bombs.

    Raising all the flags of suspicion was not helpful. Claiming to have no ID and then declaring that he was going to drive somewhere wasn't wise. It's no wonder that, in a town already intolerant of carry, all these things came together to brand him as a potential vagrant troublemaker.

    In this case, the cause of open carry did not win. Everyone lost. JMO, of course.

    644:6 Loitering or Prowling. –
    I. A person commits a violation if he knowingly appears at a place, or at a time, under circumstances that warrant alarm for the safety of persons or property in the vicinity. Circumstances which may be considered in determining whether such alarm is warranted include, but are not limited to, when the actor:
    (a) Takes flight upon appearance of a law enforcement official or upon questioning by such an official.
    (b) Manifestly endeavors to conceal himself or any object.
    (c) Has in his possession tools or other property which would lead a reasonable person to believe a crime was about to be perpetrated. (we may not consider them reasonable, but by local standards, they were)
    (d) Examines entrances to a structure which the actor has no authority or legitimate purpose to enter.
    II. Prior to any arrest under this section, unless flight or other circumstances make it impossible, a law enforcement official shall afford the actor the opportunity to dispel any alarm which would otherwise be warranted, by requesting him to identify himself and give an account for his presence and conduct. Failure to identify or account for oneself, absent other circumstances, however, shall not be grounds for arrest.
    III. No person shall be convicted under this section if the law enforcement official did not comply with paragraph II or if it appears at trial that the explanation he gave of his conduct and purposes was true and, if believed by the law enforcement official at the time, would have dispelled the alarm. In such cases, any record of the arrest made under authority of paragraph I shall be expunged.
    IV. In this section, ""entrances'' means any part of a structure through which entry or egress could be made.
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  7. #36
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Please explain how this hobby of poking bears with sticks is going to result in a positive outcome.
    It's a positive outcome when "bears" are turned into respectful agent of people's defense and protection. If outing folks who refuse to comply with the law can change things, can help compel them to listen to their training, alter their procedures to so comply, we're all better off. Such steps shouldn't be necessary, but the continued abuses we hear of, now and then, show that to be false.

    (c) Has in his possession tools or other property which would lead a reasonable person to believe a crime was about to be perpetrated.
    Hm. Mere possession of an item constitutes preparation to commit a crime, eh? Thankfully, not yet.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  8. #37
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    Okay, before anyone else throws around epithets like "idiot" and "troll", bear in mind that the OP (the principal in the video) is a registered member of this forum.

    We do not flame or insult one another on this forum.

    State your opinion, but omit the name-calling.

    Forum rule #2 applies.


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    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
    And go to your God like a soldier.

    Rudyard Kipling


    Terry

  9. #38
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    I'd like to make some corrections as it seems that some people think I'm walking up and down, up and down, up and down the road. I walked from where I parked, point A on one side of the road. crossed back over at point B and was walking back to my car.

    Without walking down the road then walking back to my car I'm not sure how I'd be able to leave the area without having a second vehicle to pick me up.
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  10. #39
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    doobie, let me be clear. I appreciate what you are trying to do, but I also think they way you are trying to do it is wrong. You are asking for trouble and you are not painting the community in the best light. Its is never wise to attempt a ******* match with a cop on the street. More than likely, you will lose that match. However, taking a more tactful approach, I can almost guarantee a positive outcome.

    What you are doing is giving the cop whats called reasonable suspicion to investigate you and what you are doing. This has been upheld in the highest of courts time and time again. You are not being "harassed" when you invite the encounter by doing what a lot of people or what is defined as a "reasonable person" would find suspicious. You are not going to win your battle basing your case on that. It is clear that you went looking for a confrontation, and a confrontation is what you got. Cops are not the huggy bears you think they should be, they are cops. They will cuss, spit, chew tobacco and sometimes are a little 'mean'. Sometimes they might kiss your backside for the heck of it, most of the time not. So, I'm really not sure where the problem with your encounter is. It seems as if you got almost exactly what you sought out that day.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    It's a positive outcome when "bears" are turned into respectful agent of people's defense and protection. If outing folks who refuse to comply with the law can change things, can help compel them to listen to their training, alter their procedures to so comply, we're all better off. Such steps shouldn't be necessary, but the continued abuses we hear of, now and then, show that to be false.


    Hm. Mere possession of an item constitutes preparation to commit a crime, eh? Thankfully, not yet.

    I agree with you here. But what you are missing is that the bears are looking out for the people as a whole, not just doobie or his groups interests. The people as a whole defined that doobie needed checked out.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  12. #41
    Senior Member Array tbrenke's Avatar
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    Do realy think that walking down the street with a gun on your belt is (c) Has in his possession tools or other property which would lead a reasonable person to believe a crime was about to be perpetrated?

    Is your defanition of reasonable person equal to sheep?
    that is what it sounds like.

    I think he did nothing wrong. no law was broken and no harm was done. if the officer wants to stop and have a conversation with him, fine, no problem. for the officer to act LIKE a sheep him self, I find that not aceptable. get some training, reread the laws.
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  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Crunch View Post
    Okay, before anyone else throws around epithets like "idiot" and "troll", bear in mind that the OP (the principal in the video) is a registered member of this forum.

    We do not flame or insult one another on this forum.

    State your opinion, but omit the name-calling.

    Forum rule #2 applies.
    Sorry, I'm one of the guilty parties here. It just chaps me to see our own undermining our cause foolishly. In maintaining our RKBA, winning in the courts of public opinion is quite important. In my little neck of the woods the Law Enforcement people I know are mostly supportive of the rights of the individual to keep and bear arms and I'd like to keep it that way. What better allies could we have than those who enforce the law? What is to be gained by antagonizing them with uncooperative and silly behavior? We are the good guys and we would do well to project that image.

  14. #43
    Senior Member Array BradyM77's Avatar
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    This guy would scare me. He is walking around aimlessly, he has no ID, he has a car but he's not using it to go anywhere
    He said in the video he was heading to a place called "Riley's" he wasn't just wandering around. He told that to the officer who informed him it was closed I believe. I say more power to him! The more the sheep see people OC'ing the better. Eventually the masses will get used to seeing the "dangerous things" and not immediately call the cops. Use your rights or lose them!
    "I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, you can't prove anything!" Bart Simpson

  15. #44
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    I can't say that seems like the smartest thing to do but why the stop and ID? Because he had the gun or a camera? If he's suspicious, watch him, maybe talk to him but being belligerent because the officer doesn't like what he's doing or the answers he's getting isn't too cool. Overall, it wasn't much of an incident.
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  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradyM77 View Post
    grandma4

    He said in the video he was heading to a place called "Riley's" he wasn't just wandering around. He told that to the officer who informed him it was closed I believe. I say more power to him! The more the sheep see people OC'ing the better. Eventually the masses will get used to seeing the "dangerous things" and not immediately call the cops. Use your rights or lose them!
    Riley's changed their hours and it close at 9pm. They used to close at 7pm until November then they started staying open later. Their hours on the door haven't changed, they just keep the doors open longer. I got there finally just as they were closing at 9 as the last customer was leaving. I do kind of wish I hadn't mentioned Riley's. I don't want the police to come down on them for anything, just because I'm a customer. As soon as I said it I wanted to kick myself for saying it.
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