Hooksett, NH cop acts belligerent and uses profanity to Law-Abiding Citizen for OCing - Page 5

Hooksett, NH cop acts belligerent and uses profanity to Law-Abiding Citizen for OCing

This is a discussion on Hooksett, NH cop acts belligerent and uses profanity to Law-Abiding Citizen for OCing within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Tiny85 Look at the media and tell me how far pro-gun news stories in comparison to anti-gun. it could even go so ...

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  1. #61
    Senior Member Array tbrenke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny85 View Post
    Look at the media and tell me how far pro-gun news stories in comparison to anti-gun. it could even go so far as to have the first scenario hit the news and end up being the second scenario once it gets to court.
    Your expecting a fare even handed display of the facts in the media?
    that will never happen. it does not happen for a police shooting eather.
    it is also irelevent, or at best a very minor issue.

    was the law broken? That is the question that matters. even in your own story. the answer is still no.
    "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution, which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." -1792, James Madison
    There are always too many Democratic, Republican and never enough U.S. congressmen.


  2. #62
    Member Array Heimer's Avatar
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    How is this any different than a black man rolling film while driving in an area that he thinks he'll have a high chance of being harrased and stopped in? It happens everywhere. He's not looking to be stopped. He's looking to document unfair profiling and detainment by the police!

    This is the exact same issue! The OP, was merely looking to document the same unfair profiling and detainment by the police. How can any of you place any blame on him??

    Should he know better than to open carry in a place that he thinks he might have a higher chance of being harassed for it?

    Cheers to you Doobie for having the balls to do this.

    Shame on the enormous amount of posters in this thread that are appearantly more programmed than my Tivo!!

    Papers Please!
    I work to buy guns. Not really, but sometimes it feels that way..

  3. #63
    Member Array Chirpy72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    This is exactly correct. Our rights are protected by the government, which is made up of our friends and neighbors. Acting foolishly and childishly with the mindset of antagonizing authorities does a great deal of harm to our cause. If people think gun owners act as a juvenile seeking attention then they will be more inclined to pass legislation to mitigate that behavior.

    Acting out never has good consequences. I would like to think gun owners are able to show more maturity and be good public stewards of public relations, especially if they take the risk of open carry. This behavior is damaging to all of us.

    To paraphrase the mantra of attention seeking open carriers, a right abused is a right lost.



    Among some who open carry, that type of behavior and being questioned by LEO is a badge of honor. It is like a juvenile college hazing ritual or a gang banger hoping for 'street cred.'

    I support open carry but I would also support state legislation that requires gun carriers to present identification anytime it is requested.

    Act like an adult and there is no problem with LE. Act like a child and get treated as such. Put away childish things.


    This about sums it up.

  4. #64
    Member Array Tiny85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbrenke View Post
    Your expecting a fare even handed display of the facts in the media?
    that will never happen. it does not happen for a police shooting eather.
    it is also irelevent, or at best a very minor issue.

    was the law broken? That is the question that matters. even in your own story. the answer is still no.
    That is my point! The point is to not give them anything extra to use against them. I have already agreed what the LEO did was wrong but IMHO no less deserving of reproach then setting out to try and get this to happen, which the OP has admitted doing.

    here let me spell it out for everyone so no one gets confused, if your going to OC/CC be RESPECTFUL to EVERYONE you meet. this is the only way you can help the cause. Anything else you might as well ask the Brady Campaign if there is anything else they need help with.

    As has been stated numerous times in this thread the disagreement isn't laws being broken its the childish and disrespectful demeanor of the subject that people are having issue with.
    There's nothing wrong with shooting so long as the right people get shot. -- Dirty Harry Calahan

  5. #65
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    My opinion: what was achieved in the video was to portray OCers as troublemakers intent on ticking off LEOs unnecessarily. The result is that this particular officer is now solidly in the side of anti gunners and will pass his feelings to other officers and will also be a free spokesperson for Brady and Co. if they decide to gather their wits and try to pass a law in that state restricting OC. Instead of stopping 5 minutes and address the officer explaining that OC is legal, that you were an average citizen engaged in his normal life and obeying the law and proving it to him by having the decency of showing some ID and even a business card with your organization's name and website so he could check it out. Hell maybe inviting him and his fellow officers & family to one of those OC picnics I hear about just to hang out and have a burger or two so they can see that your fellow OCers are just regular law abiding citizens that just happen to exercise their rights. So instead of educating a LEO, you created an enemy of OC and gun rights in general. Plus the unnecessary waste of taxpayers money having the patrol car follow you around.

    I see no difference between your actions and the actions of groups like Code Pink or the Westboro Baptist Church.

    It is my humble opinion that individuals like you are a risk on the Second Amendment Right of everybody else.

    We must seek to educate & convince on the righteousness of our cause.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy View Post
    My opinion: what was achieved in the video was to portray OCers as troublemakers intent on ticking off LEOs unnecessarily. The result is that this particular officer is now solidly in the side of anti gunners and will pass his feelings to other officers and will also be a free spokesperson for Brady and Co. if they decide to gather their wits and try to pass a law in that state restricting OC. Instead of stopping 5 minutes and address the officer explaining that OC is legal, that you were an average citizen engaged in his normal life and obeying the law and proving it to him by having the decency of showing some ID and even a business card with your organization's name and website so he could check it out. Hell maybe inviting him and his fellow officers & family to one of those OC picnics I hear about just to hang out and have a burger or two so they can see that your fellow OCers are just regular law abiding citizens that just happen to exercise their rights. So instead of educating a LEO, you created an enemy of OC and gun rights in general. Plus the unnecessary waste of taxpayers money having the patrol car follow you around.

    I see no difference between your actions and the actions of groups like Code Pink or the Westboro Baptist Church.

    It is my humble opinion that individuals like you are a risk on the Second Amendment Right of everybody else.

    We must seek to educate & convince on the righteousness of our cause.
    Well put Miggy
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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  7. #67
    Member Array Tiny85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy View Post
    My opinion: what was achieved in the video was to portray OCers as troublemakers intent on ticking off LEOs unnecessarily. The result is that this particular officer is now solidly in the side of anti gunners and will pass his feelings to other officers and will also be a free spokesperson for Brady and Co. if they decide to gather their wits and try to pass a law in that state restricting OC. Instead of stopping 5 minutes and address the officer explaining that OC is legal, that you were an average citizen engaged in his normal life and obeying the law and proving it to him by having the decency of showing some ID and even a business card with your organization's name and website so he could check it out. Hell maybe inviting him and his fellow officers & family to one of those OC picnics I hear about just to hang out and have a burger or two so they can see that your fellow OCers are just regular law abiding citizens that just happen to exercise their rights. So instead of educating a LEO, you created an enemy of OC and gun rights in general. Plus the unnecessary waste of taxpayers money having the patrol car follow you around.

    I see no difference between your actions and the actions of groups like Code Pink or the Westboro Baptist Church.

    It is my humble opinion that individuals like you are a risk on the Second Amendment Right of everybody else.

    We must seek to educate & convince on the righteousness of our cause.
    +1

    There's nothing wrong with shooting so long as the right people get shot. -- Dirty Harry Calahan

  8. #68
    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    Childish actions, looking for trouble and you found it,

    Well said Miggy.

    You have given open carriers a black eye.............
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

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  9. #69
    Distinguished Member Array orangevol's Avatar
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    First of all I guess the laws of open carry are much different in New Hampster or is it New Hampshire???

    Here in Tennessee we can legally carry, (open or concealed) only with a Handgun Carry Permit. I open carry often, BUT not to draw attention to myself especially from the police.

    I just cannot agree with the intent of the young man's actions. I just do not see the positive effect of "challenging" the authorities in this manner. As some of the other posters have already stated it appears he was strictly out looking for a battle of "right and wrong"

    Do I agree with his decision? No!!! Equally, you have the right to swat a hornets nest with a baseball bat...but I sure don't want to be anywhere around when you do.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    So??? Man didn't break any laws. The fact remains his actions were unwise, childish, and ultimately reflected poorly on all of us who choose to carry guns for protection. Why defend this kind of behavior?
    I stated that he could have acted a little more tactfully towards the officer so I have to disagree that I was defending his behavior. That being said, it still doesn't change that the fact that he was doing nothing wrong and that the officer could have observed that fact and gone away without detaining him.
    "No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -Thomas Jefferson

  11. #71
    Senior Member Array cagueits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heimer View Post
    How is this any different than a black man rolling film while driving in an area that he thinks he'll have a high chance of being harrased and stopped in? It happens everywhere. He's not looking to be stopped. He's looking to document unfair profiling and detainment by the police!

    This is the exact same issue! The OP, was merely looking to document the same unfair profiling and detainment by the police. How can any of you place any blame on him??

    Should he know better than to open carry in a place that he thinks he might have a higher chance of being harassed for it?

    Cheers to you Doobie for having the balls to do this.

    Shame on the enormous amount of posters in this thread that are appearantly more programmed than my Tivo!!

    Papers Please!
    This about sums up my point of view. Keep at it Doobie, we are still in America.
    I can no longer keep track of threads as I used to. If you need to contact me, PM me instead of asking me something in the thread. Disclaimer - No legal advice issued anywhere. Take care.

  12. #72
    Ex Member Array United93's Avatar
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    I don't get it. Honestly.

    retsupt99 made an excellent point. What was the deciding factor in the OP's detention? Was it the legally worn beard? Or the legally worn leather boots? Or the legally carried camera? Or the legally carried gun?

    Or did he just 'seem suspicious'? Why? Because of legally carried items? Because he was walking down the street?

  13. #73
    Senior Member Array rmodel65's Avatar
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    i guess Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Rosa Parks etc should have just cooperated? Non Violent Civil Disobedience is a great idea.
    S&W M&P40/M&P9c OC rigs
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  14. #74
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmodel65 View Post
    i guess Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Rosa Parks etc should have just cooperated? Non Violent Civil Disobedience is a great idea.
    Sorry but comparing Doobie to Gandhi is just a bit funny.

  15. #75
    Senior Member Array Sergeant Mac's Avatar
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    I can see both sides of the issue, and agree/disagree with bits and pieces of each.

    In a PERFECT world, any decent person could go anywhere, at any time, with a gold-plated Desert Eagle on his hip, in a neon pink holster, carrying a videocamera, while dressed in baggy blue pants and a blue Fubu hoodie, with a blue do-rag hanging out of each back pocket, and wearing dreadlocks, and as long as he wasn't harming/threatening anybody, nobody would even CARE.

    THEORETICALLY, there's not a single part of that description that makes a difference, because NONE of it describes even a SINGLE criminal act.

    We do not, however, live in a perfect world.

    Sooooooooo.........

    YES, Doobie was "looking for trouble".....and found it, to some limited extent. His narration makes it abundantly clear that he fully EXPECTED someone to call the police, and for a police officer to confront him, and I believe that he very carefully created a scenario which would provoke those very events.

    NO, Doobie did not commit any crime.

    YES, the officer was out of line when he cursed at Doobie.

    YES, despite no crime having been committed, the officer DID have, objectively, "reasonable, articulable SUSPICION" to believe that a crime had occurred, was occurring, or was ABOUT TO occur, which is the standard for a Terry stop. He was responding to a complaint, he went to investigate it, and what did he observe when he got there?

    The problem is that, right/wrong/indifferent, nearly everyone passes judgment upon others based upon their APPEARANCE. What did people see here? A young man, wearing baggy shorts, sneakers and sunglasses, walking down the sidewalk holding something out in front of his face and talking at it, while wearing a pistol on his hip. To most people, that qualifies as "unusual behavior".

    Would Doobie have gotten the same reaction from the public if he'd been wearing dress pants, a dress shirt and a tie, and simply walking down the street minus the videocamera? Doubtful.

    Would Doobie have gotten the same reaction from the officer if he'd said his ID was in his car, told the officer where the car was, and given his name (even if ALL his other responses were PRECISELY the same)? Doubtful.

    Doobie "won" this confrontation, by his own standards -- for what that's worth.

    In case some of you are not aware of it, there is a movement called the Free State Project, whose goal is to move 20,000 liberty-minded people to one state where activism in the realm of liberty can be effective. They chose New Hampshire due to its already considerable degree of liberty (all things considered) and its small population.

    While they haven't reached anywhere even close to 20,000, the folks who have already moved there have been quite active, challenging all manner of government intrusion upon liberty.

    Some of it, I admire. Some of it, I simply find to be drama queen-ish. I see good and bad.

    Good: increase awareness of the legitimacy of open carry, especially among police officers, some of whom do not even KNOW it's legal.

    Bad: going about it in an in-your-face manner, and thus risking turning public opinion AGAINST open carry and those who practice it.

    It's one thing to draw attention to the sewage that's up to everyone's lower lip. It's another to make waves.

    Doobie: GENTLE persuasion.

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