Hooksett, NH cop acts belligerent and uses profanity to Law-Abiding Citizen for OCing

Hooksett, NH cop acts belligerent and uses profanity to Law-Abiding Citizen for OCing

This is a discussion on Hooksett, NH cop acts belligerent and uses profanity to Law-Abiding Citizen for OCing within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Note: there is some profanity in the video. There is a blue title box that appears for 5 seconds before the profanity. Notice how belligerent ...

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Thread: Hooksett, NH cop acts belligerent and uses profanity to Law-Abiding Citizen for OCing

  1. #1
    Member Array doobie's Avatar
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    Hooksett, NH cop acts belligerent and uses profanity to Law-Abiding Citizen for OCing

    Note: there is some profanity in the video. There is a blue title box that appears for 5 seconds before the profanity.

    Notice how belligerent the cop is to a law-abiding citizen exercising his rights..
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    Member Array BlackJack's Avatar
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    I can understand and agree with the sentiment about being harassed just because he is Open Carrying, but I do have a problem with what he is doing. He is not just standing up for his rights; he is out “trolling” for trouble. He is looking for confrontation so that he can tell the LEOs that he is right and they are wrong.

    Granted, some LEOs are not aware of all the laws pertaining to the carrying of a firearm, and need to be made aware. But this, in my opinion, is not the way to do it.

    If he was just out “going about his business” and was stopped and harassed it would be different. Here, though, he is out looking for a confrontation and making a point of being uncooperative.

    Do guns scare and upset the”sheep”? Yes they do.

    Is that our problem? Well, actually it is. Why? Because when those “sheep” call 911, we are the ones that have to deal with the responding LEO and I believe that how we deal with him/her has a tremendous impact on how they see all of us as a whole and how they will treat us in the future.

    I have all the respect I the world for somebody who stands up for their rights and what they believe, but I have no use whatsoever for somebody that goes out looking for confrontation.

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    Member Array Donodii's Avatar
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    What an idiot. This only makes the rest of us look bad. He may have been within his rights but they way he did it was wrong. When you grab the bull by the horns you'll get stuck.
    Never argue with idiots - they'll drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

  4. #4
    sss
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    Yeah - this guy was asking for trouble, but that doesn't make the LEO's response acceptable. Both of these guys are at fault here, IMO.
    "A professional politician is a professionally dishonorable man. In order to get anywhere near high office he has to make so many compromises and submit to so many humiliations that he becomes indistinguishable from a streetwalker." - H.L. Mencken

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    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    Interesting. Doobie, is that you in the video? The guy in the video identifies himself as "Doobie" during his cellphone call just prior to being stopped.
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sss View Post
    Yeah - this guy was asking for trouble ...
    The primary point we all need to keep in mind, irrespective of our biases and prejudices, is this simple fact: he wasn't asking for anything. That he knew there was a high likelihood of being harassed is irrelevant.

    He was walking on a street. Criminal that he obviously must have been, his behavior showed he must be approached and dealt with ... right? Yes, he was walking in an area known for "Papers Please" harassment of citizens. Yes, he was doing so while recording the incident. But, not one thing this person did begged to be arrested or detained.

    Rolling over and allowing law enforcement, politicians and others to continue to harass and damage upstanding citizens isn't going to go anywhere unless this sort of crap is outed. It is what it is.

    Do guns scare and upset the ”sheep”? Yes they do.
    Sheep get themselves upset. If it's not defensive firearms, it's going to be something else. And that's exactly the point. Defensive firearms are no more threatening than shoes, for those who carry the tools of their own defense.

    What needs to happen, and it ain't gonna happen all on its own, is that law enforcement needs to educate the "nervous nellies" when they make "man with a gun / guy doing nothing overtly criminal" type calls out of fear and loathing. Avoiding a "Papers Please!" slippery slope is in everyone's best interest.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  7. #7
    Member Array doobie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom357 View Post
    Interesting. Doobie, is that you in the video? The guy in the video identifies himself as "Doobie" during his cellphone call just prior to being stopped.
    Yes it was me. I like walking around. Yes I like open carrying. Yes I'm quite aware OCing is likely to draw 911 calls, but another persons 'annoyance and alarm does not override my Right to open carry." Some towns they have gotten so used to people OCing that nothing occurs when someone does; or it's just a quick, "You aren't doing anything wrong, but we get calls we need to check." This town had an incident I think 6-9 months ago where two people were walking and OCing at the same general area and multiple officers showed up and drew/aimed their firearms at them and disarmed them and patted them down, so I knew what I was getting into then.

    For my sabbatical next year I'll probably spend 4 weeks walk around NH open carrying.

    I was actually detained twice yesterday in different cities. Two totally different responses; the other one isn't processed/posted because there wasn't much in the way of police harassment (other than being detained).
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    Member Array grandma4's Avatar
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    This guy would scare me. He is walking around aimlessly, he has no ID, he has a car but he's not using it to go anywhere. He's acting like someone either who has a mental problem or is up to no good. OK, you guys and gals out there on this forum are always pretty good at realizing that gun carrying, no matter what the laws or rights we have, are still a responsibility. This guy only wants to have his picture on u-tube and act like an idiot. If I lived in a neighborhood where he would show up, even though I open carry sometimes, I carry concealed at all other times, I have the right to do so, and I want people to respect my right to do so, I would be one of the ones who would be calling the police. He would be on my radar, my yellow lights would be flashing and I would be on high alert if he showed up on my sidewalk, just as I think you would also.

    It certainly does not do anything to make people respect our rights when he is acting so stupid.

    Oh and by the way. How would you like it if you saw someone in your neighborhood that looked very suspicious, you called 911, and they refused to talk to him because "he hasn't done anything yet". This guy makes all of us look bad to the press. He is not helping the cause.
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  9. #9
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grandma4 View Post
    This guy would scare me. He is walking around aimlessly, he has no ID, he has a car but he's not using it to go anywhere.
    I have a car but don't use it to "go anywhere" on a given day. I also choose to walk between some businesses, at times when I'm shopping, preferring that over hop-skipping with the car from parking lot to parking lot. Criminal misuse of a vehicle? I think not.

    He's acting like someone either who has a mental problem or is up to no good.
    That's a gross mischaracterization of a simple human act: walking down a street. The fact that he's prepared to record any incidence of harassment is irrelevant. The act of walking doesn't justify police response.

    If you are walking down a street in your town, what crime are you committing? Be specific ... and don't muddy the waters with any other subsequent act you may perform, such as posting video of police harassment of your non-threating act of walking.

    It certainly does not do anything to make people respect our rights when he is acting so stupid.
    What actions are stupid? The walking? Or, the walking?

    How would you like it if you saw someone in your neighborhood that looked very suspicious ...
    What's suspicious about a person walking down a "strip mall" type of busy avenue?

    ... you called 911, and they refused to talk to him because "he hasn't done anything yet".
    I'd feel that any rebuke I'd earned was completely misplaced. But I'd be ignorant to take it that way, just because I wanted my power desired over that person (as a resident of this town) to be taken seriously ... misplaced as that was. Frankly, if I were to attempt such power over another person, I should be rebuked for stupidity and "nervous nellie-ism." Absolutely, when it's unjustified. The police force isn't here to be the steel toe in our boot.

    What one would like to be done cannot (and should never be allowed to) trump sane and rational citizenry, and cannot trump sane/rational policing.

    THE GUY IS WALKING DOWN A STREET. Nothing more. That is not a crime. That, in itself, is not suspicious. It is NOT reasonable cause for fear in others, harassment, detainment or arrest. At most, it's possibly worth checking into by police, given the overall climate in the area and possible other recent situations.
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  10. #10
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    The primary point we all need to keep in mind, irrespective of our biases and prejudices, is this simple fact: he wasn't asking for anything. That he knew there was a high likelihood of being harassed is irrelevant.
    It is not irrelevant. It was exactly the point of the confrontation. Some of these people want to be harrassed. They want the negative attention. So much so that they post a video on the internet. Would it be interesting to post a video of someone simply walking down a street?

    He was walking on a street. Criminal that he obviously must have been, his behavior showed he must be approached and dealt with ... right? Yes, he was walking in an area known for "Papers Please" harassment of citizens. Yes, he was doing so while recording the incident. But, not one thing this person did begged to be arrested or detained.
    When you want to find a confrontation it is usually pretty easy to do so. How many times do we suggest that we avoid confrontation, avoid a fight, avoid a gun fight? Who wants to go out and start an incident? The person in the video!

    It is bad enough when people are belligerent and act like children when asked for ID while minding their business, like the folks at the restaurant. It is quite another thing to seek internet fame and planning a childish, juvenile scenario. (Let's not forget the potential of a lawsuit,the holy grail of some.)

    Rolling over and allowing law enforcement, politicians and others to continue to harass and damage upstanding citizens isn't going to go anywhere unless this sort of crap is outed. It is what it is.
    What damage?

    What needs to happen, and it ain't gonna happen all on its own, is that law enforcement needs to educate the "nervous nellies" when they make "man with a gun / guy doing nothing overtly criminal" type calls out of fear and loathing. Avoiding a "Papers Please!" slippery slope is in everyone's best interest.
    There is no slippery slope. That is a strawman argument. We should identify illegals and criminals. If you act like either then you should answer some basic questions. If you are a law abiding citizen you should WANT TO COOPERATE, not whine and complain.

    And no, it is not the responsibility of law enforcement to educate the public.

    If some thug is suspiciously casing my neighborhood, gun visible in his waistband, I would be remiss in my responsibility if I did not call police to investigate. And they would shirking their responsibility if they dismissed the concern.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    Who wants to go out and start an incident? The person in the video!
    Ah, me. Where to begin.

    The police didn't know this. They didn't respond to the scene based on this. Nothing in the action (the walking) justified this.

    The person's presumed likelihood to meet up with LEO's who took his walking with a gun badly doesn't change the fact that no overt action justified the contact.

    And the person's having a tool on-hand to record the incidence of any harassing behavior isn't relevant as justification for contact. The fact he had such a tool wasn't known to the responding officers at the time. What the person intended to do with such a recording isn't much different from what a newsie intends to do with a recording of harassment he/she witnesses. One cannot be a criminal, unjustifiable ("childish, juvenile"?) act, whereas the other is a gleaming, shining example of high responsibility.

    It is quite another thing to seek internet fame and planning a childish, juvenile scenario.
    The "childish, juvenile scenario" would be the walking down the street?

    If you are a law abiding citizen you should WANT TO COOPERATE, not whine and complain.
    Straw man argument. Hm. Yes, upstanding citizens want to support justifiable police behavior. Upstanding citizens should also want to correct unjustifiable police behavior. It's a duty and responsibility, as citizens.

    And no, it is not the responsibility of law enforcement to educate the public.
    When "nervous nellies" in the public are abusing the policing, it absolutely is. Takes 5 seconds to say: "I'm sorry ma'am, but it's perfectly legal to openly carry in this state. Unless there's a criminal act or reasonable suspicion of a criminal act ...."

    You're right, though. Police don't have that responsibility, per se. They also don't have the responsibility to protect us. SCOTUS says so.

    If some thug is suspiciously casing my neighborhood, gun visible in his waistband, I would be remiss in my responsibility if I did not call police to investigate.
    And you know this is "some thug" how, exactly? "Casing" the neighborhood how?

    You would be irresponsible to make such a call on the basis of seeing someone carrying, calling on everyone carrying. It's unjustified, alone without corroborating factors.

    If we're willing to accept assertive contact (or, worse, even aggressive take-downs, as happens in many places) of anyone daring to openly carry, in the absence of any criminal behavior or reasonable suspicion of criminal behavior, then a police state is what we deserve. Ben Franklin said something pithy about that slippery slope, slippery that it is.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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    Member Array doobie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post


    What damage?
    Random check points asking people who have done nothing wrong for ID. Us becoming a "Papers Please!" society. It happened before, it will happen again. OH WAIT they already do that regularly in TX, AZ, NH, and VT. If I have done nothing wrong I should not need to be detained. And if the officer any any suspicion I had done something wrong he should have arrested me.

    Perhaps I should start call 911 when I see someone preaching in a park because it annoys and alarms me?
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    What damage?
    Damage to society, in the larger sense and in the long run. Absolutely.

    And, in cases such as the forcible take-down of Daniel Sayers (OH, a couple years back), a vision of a police state that cannot be easily eliminated once it gains a toe hold. Simply ask Mr. Sayers what damage he sustained. It goes way, way beyond any bruises, cuts or scrapes. The mere threat of that is damage enough, thank'ee very much. It needs to stop. And it's not going to stop if nobody does a darned thing, pining about their right to call out the hounds about every little nervous tick they might have about someone simply walking by.

    "Papers Please!" Not in my lifetime ... not if we can help it.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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    Member Array doobie's Avatar
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    A video will be posted a little later with a similar incident in Manchester, NH the same day with the same person for comparison. The Manchester officer was respectful and I praise him for that.

    The problem I have with being detained only occurs when the officers are NOT respectful. I will not submit to their authority just because of another persons alarm an annoyance when they do not tell me some reasonable and lawful explanation of why I am being detained. If the officer came up with even a BS, but reasonable, violation made I would have provided him with my name. The officer was asked, "what have I done wrong?" and provided no 'lawful' response for the terry stop.
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    I'm sorry, but I don't see any damge being done. I do agree that Doobie was "trolling" for a reaction, however, it is his right to OC and shouldn't have had to indure the LEO's use of foul language, that was abusive IMO. I have a great respect for LEO's, however, I disagree with show me your id reactions to these kinds of situations.

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