Florida Statutes issue - need insight/opinions

This is a discussion on Florida Statutes issue - need insight/opinions within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I am in a heated debate over this issue. It is an issue I will refrain from stating until a few posts later but I ...

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Thread: Florida Statutes issue - need insight/opinions

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Question Florida Statutes issue - need insight/opinions

    I am in a heated debate over this issue. It is an issue I will refrain from stating until a few posts later but I do believe it will fall under the subject guidelines of this particular forum.

    I would like to ask for you to read the below posted Florida Statutes taken directly from the Florida State Statutes site (link to site provided for reference).
    Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes :->2008->Chapter 790 : Online Sunshine

    I have provided the first two statutes chapters below as they will relate to the third statute listed below them.

    Please, in your opinion, give me your best interpretation or legal interpretation if you work for the appropriate agency.


    790.053 Open carrying of weapons.--

    (1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device.

    (2) A person may openly carry, for purposes of lawful self-defense:

    (a) A self-defense chemical spray.

    (b) A nonlethal stun gun or dart-firing stun gun or other nonlethal electric weapon or device that is designed solely for defensive purposes.

    (3) Any person violating this section commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.





    790.06 License to carry concealed weapon or firearm.--

    1(1) The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services is authorized to issue licenses to carry concealed weapons or concealed firearms to persons qualified as provided in this section. Each such license must bear a color photograph of the licensee. For the purposes of this section, concealed weapons or concealed firearms are defined as a handgun, electronic weapon or device, tear gas gun, knife, or billie, but the term does not include a machine gun as defined in s. 790.001(9). Such licenses shall be valid throughout the state for a period of 7 years from the date of issuance. Any person in compliance with the terms of such license may carry a concealed weapon or concealed firearm notwithstanding the provisions of s. 790.01. The licensee must carry the license, together with valid identification, at all times in which the licensee is in actual possession of a concealed weapon or firearm and must display both the license and proper identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer. Violations of the provisions of this subsection shall constitute a noncriminal violation with a penalty of $25, payable to the clerk of the court.






    Now, read this statute below and interpret it, using the two statutes above. This statute says the two above statutes "do not apply". In your best opinion, what would you decipher as a meaning of this statute below, particularly the bolded item at the end?



    790.25 Lawful ownership, possession, and use of firearms and other weapons.--

    (1)
    (2)

    (3) LAWFUL USES.--The provisions of ss. 790.053 and 790.06 do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:

    (a) Members of the Militia, National Guard, Florida State Defense Force, Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, organized reserves, and other armed forces of the state and of the United States, when on duty, when training or preparing themselves for military duty, or while subject to recall or mobilization;

    (b) Citizens of this state subject to duty in the Armed Forces under s. 2, Art. X of the State Constitution, under chapters 250 and 251, and under federal laws, when on duty or when training or preparing themselves for military duty;

    (c) Persons carrying out or training for emergency management duties under chapter 252;

    (d) Sheriffs, marshals, prison or jail wardens, police officers, Florida highway patrol officers, game wardens, revenue officers, forest officials, special officers appointed under the provisions of chapter 354, and other peace and law enforcement officers and their deputies and assistants and full-time paid peace officers of other states and of the Federal Government who are carrying out official duties while in this state;

    (e) Officers or employees of the state or United States duly authorized to carry a concealed weapon;

    (f) Guards or messengers of common carriers, express companies, armored car carriers, mail carriers, banks, and other financial institutions, while actually employed in and about the shipment, transportation, or delivery of any money, treasure, bullion, bonds, or other thing of value within this state;

    (g) Regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive weapons from the United States or from this state, or regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for target, skeet, or trap shooting, while at or going to or from shooting practice; or regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for modern or antique firearms collecting, while such members are at or going to or from their collectors' gun shows, conventions, or exhibits;

    (h) A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition;

    (i) A person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of any such person while engaged in the lawful course of such business;
    Last edited by Tally XD; June 25th, 2009 at 12:31 AM.
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  3. #2
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    If you work in a gun shop (or another business), you can open carry (as the owner or with permission of the owner).
    Some of the gun shops in Central Florida allow employees to open carry.

    What's your question?
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    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    If you work in a gun shop (or another business), you can open carry (as the owner or with permission of the owner).
    Some of the gun shops in Central Florida allow employees to open carry.

    What's your question?
    My question is, "How do you interpret this statute?"

    The issue I am arguing is open carry away from the business while conducting lawful business as an agent or representative of said FFL dealer. The statute states that lawful possession and use of a firearm is lawful under the conditions of the said statute and that concealed carry and open carry statutes do not apply to this law.

    Florida statutes already allow a private business owner and employees to open carry regardless of any FFL license or affiliation. Its legal on any private owned business property.

    I do work at a gun store and we do open carry there.
    I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.
    - Barack Obama Chicago Tribune, April 27, 2004

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    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Tally,

    No help here in terms of professional opinion.
    I think it could read that OC would be legal off-premises (if I understand your question). But, remember, what the law says, how lawyers and LE interpret it, and what it really means could all be very different. In fact, in spite of what it looks like the law says, I think you stand a good chance of meeting the sidewalk up close and personal.

    Call the AG's office right there in Tallahassee and ask them.
    Or, Gutmacher would probably respond to this as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tally XD View Post
    My question is, "How do you interpret this statute?"

    The issue I am arguing is open carry away from the business while conducting lawful business as an agent or representative of said FFL dealer. The statute states that lawful possession and use of a firearm is lawful under the conditions of the said statute and that concealed carry and open carry statutes do not apply to this law.

    Florida statutes already allow a private business owner and employees to open carry regardless of any FFL license or affiliation. Its legal on any private owned business property.

    I do work at a gun store and we do open carry there.
    My opinion and background knowledge says...in the business, you may open carry...leave the business (even if you're on official business), do not open carry.
    (i) A person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of any such person while engaged in the lawful course of such business;
    This does not seem to indicate 'off premises nor delivery of firearms'...I'm just sayin'...
    As Miklcolt45 says, call the AG.

    Good luck...
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    Member Array Precision's Avatar
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    If you have to stretch the meaning to fit your desire, then you will often be found in the wrong.

    I seriously doubt the AG will respond. On their sight it specifically states that they will NOT render an opinion for the common citizen. They will refer you to an opinion already rendered for a government agency or from case law if one exists.

    Gutmacher is your better likelihood of getting a cogent response. But I go with my first statement. If you finagle to get to your interpretation, you will most likely be sadly disappointed (especially when concerning open interpretations regarding guns).

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    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tally XD View Post
    My question is, "How do you interpret this statute?"

    The issue I am arguing is open carry away from the business while conducting lawful business as an agent or representative of said FFL dealer. The statute states that lawful possession and use of a firearm is lawful under the conditions of the said statute and that concealed carry and open carry statutes do not apply to this law.

    Florida statutes already allow a private business owner and employees to open carry regardless of any FFL license or affiliation. Its legal on any private owned business property.

    I do work at a gun store and we do open carry there.

    The business owner's authority only extends to his premises, so my opinion is no, just because he authorizes you to do so at the business, does not allow you to do so elsewhere.

    As was previously mentioned, a call to the AG or Jon Gutmacher to confirm couldn't hurt, but I'd bet a paycheck on this one.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."

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    Distinguished Member Array TerriLi's Avatar
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    I could see it interpreted that way, but as to the current state of FL open carry I would not push it.
    As a rep or a person engaging in FFL work especially if you are picking up a shipment of new weapons, I could see this to mean you could open carry.
    Still as per statutes of Florida you will be the test case in court right now.
    So I think you are correct but it isn't a well known interpretation so you would most likely be either harassed at the least, arrested and charged at the worst.
    I know not what this "overkill" means.

    Honing the knives, Cleaning the longguns, Stocking up ammo.

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    Member Array Blakestr's Avatar
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    Gutmacher would probably mention that the law does specifically prohibit what you are asking but that a more "common sense" interpretation is probably taken in account.

    He might also ask if you would like his services should you try it because you could become the "test case" that clarifies the law for the rest of us.

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    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Precision View Post
    If you have to stretch the meaning to fit your desire, then you will often be found in the wrong.
    Not stretching anything. The statutes say what they say plain and clear. I am simply trying to get a good consensus of what people see as its meaning. Open carry away from the business is exactly what I am trying to determine.

    My boss, the actual FFL licensee, carried his pistol with him to the Department of Agriculture today. He asked if he needed to remove it or put it away and they told him "Not necessary".

    Quote Originally Posted by TerriLi View Post
    I could see it interpreted that way, but as to the current state of FL open carry I would not push it.
    As a rep or a person engaging in FFL work especially if you are picking up a shipment of new weapons, I could see this to mean you could open carry.
    Still as per statutes of Florida you will be the test case in court right now.
    So I think you are correct but it isn't a well known interpretation so you would most likely be either harassed at the least, arrested and charged at the worst.
    Good answer TerriLi. While I myself have no desire to open carry, I have done it once while picking up a shipment of pistols. I was uncomfortable doing it so I will continue to stay concealed. I am just making an argument as to what the law states. I have no plans to become a test case.
    I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.
    - Barack Obama Chicago Tribune, April 27, 2004

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    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    First ansewr out of my brother the LEO 24yrs said NO! CLICK CLICK He said no open carry in FL. unless hunting.
    A Native Floridian = RARE


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    Senior Member Array rmodel65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hogdaddy View Post
    First ansewr out of my brother the LEO 24yrs said NO! CLICK CLICK He said no open carry in FL. unless hunting.


    dont forget camping and fishing too and going there and the way back home ;)
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    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hogdaddy View Post
    First ansewr out of my brother the LEO 24yrs said NO! CLICK CLICK He said no open carry in FL. unless hunting.
    Just discussed this with two police officers, one a member of Sheriffs Office Department of Homeland Security and a City Police officer member of the SWAT team and instructor at Pat Thomas Law Enforcement Academy. Both of them agreed that the law stated correctly that carry, concealed or open with or without a license to carry, is legal for an FFL or agent or representative thereof as long as they are out doing lawful business relating to their FFL business. They also agreed that this business can extend to where ever the business is being conducted such as picking up firearms shipments, bank deposits, weapons transport etc.
    I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.
    - Barack Obama Chicago Tribune, April 27, 2004

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