No OC in Cary, NC?

No OC in Cary, NC?

This is a discussion on No OC in Cary, NC? within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I read in Bunny's post about being asked to leave best Buy, that a Best Buy public affairs wonk searched the NC laws and found ...

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Thread: No OC in Cary, NC?

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    No OC in Cary, NC?

    I read in Bunny's post about being asked to leave best Buy, that a Best Buy public affairs wonk searched the NC laws and found the Town of Cary forbids OC? Is that true? How can they preempt state law?

    I go there frequently, and even though I almost always CC, I am now a bit freaked out knowing OC is possibly illegal. Anyone here got any insights?


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Bunny's Avatar
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    Illegal in Cary and Chapel Hill, I believe, We are "ambiguous Open Carry" here in NC, which as I understand it means that statewide, we should be able to OC. BUT...local municipalities can make their own rules regarding OC, so if they decide it's not ok, then CC or NO-C instead. So far though, only Chapel Hill and Cary seem to have drunk the Kool Aid.
    Don't frisk me, I am the weapon.


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  3. #3
    Member Array docman's Avatar
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    can an "out of state" visitor oc while in nc?

  4. #4
    Distinguished Member Array Bunny's Avatar
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    I believe so, just not in Cary, Chapel Hill, or any place where OC or firearms are restricted/forbidden.

    Off the top of my head, you can not carry at all in educational buildings/properties, any place posted with a " no weapons or no firearms" sign, no firearms in hospitals or medical offices, no firearms in a parade/gathering, funeral (weddings are okie dokie), any place where alcohol is BOTH sold and consumed, any place where admission is charged, any place where you have alcohol or any drugs in your system unless you have legally obtained said drugs and they are in your bloodstream in theraputic doses...

    I'm probably forgetting a few.
    Don't frisk me, I am the weapon.


    Sig Sauer P239 DAK (9mm)
    NRA Member & Pistol Instructor

    www.vanguardnc.com

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    Here's my NC cheat sheet.

    Ten areas are listed in N.C.G.S. 14-415.11(c) as places a concealed
    handgun is not allowed by the permit statute. On some of this
    location, no firearm, open or concealed, can be lawfully possessed by a private citizen
    .
    Any firearm on those premises is illegal. In others, the prohibition extends
    to concealed handguns. These locations are
    designated as no concealed handgun zones by the permit statute.
    The difference between no firearm zone and no concealed carry
    zone is important. A handgun that is openly carried, and not
    concealed, does not violate the concealed carry statute and does not
    violate the concealed deadly weapon statute, N.C.G.S. 14-269, but the
    no firearm zones prohibit open and concealed firearms.

    a) Educational property: NO FIREARMS
    Educational property is generally that of any public or private
    educational institution. Included are the buildings, grounds,
    recreation and athletic areas, buses, and . . . other property
    owned, used, or operated (by a public or private educational
    institution). The educational institution may be a nursery
    school or a university. The facility may be an entire hospital or
    just a bus. Violation may be a Class I felony, N.C.G.S. 14-
    269.2(b).

    b) Assembly where admission fee is charged: NO FIREARMS
    Any assembly where an admission fee has been charged,
    N.C.G.S. 14-269.3.

    c) Alcoholic beverages sold and consumed: NO FIREARMS
    In any place where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed.
    Certain exceptions are provided. Violation is a Class 1
    Misdemeanor, N.C.G.S. 14-269.3.

    d) Courthouses, state buildings, and federal property: NO
    FIREARMS

    Firearms are prohibited on certain state property. Enumerated
    are the State Capitol Building, the Executive Mansion, the
    Western Residence of the Governor, or in any building housing
    any court of the General Court of Justice. Certain exceptions
    are provided. Federal property generally is also forbidden
    under various provisions of federal and state statutes.
    Violation is a Class 1 Misdemeanor, N.C.G.S. 14-269.4.

    e) At a parade, demonstration, funeral, picket line: NO
    FIREARMS

    Firearms are prohibited in, or as a spectator at, any parade,
    funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration upon any
    private health care facility, or upon any public place prohibited
    by the state or any political subdivision. Violation is a Class 1
    Misdemeanor, N.C.G.S. 14-277.2.

    f) In a law enforcement facility: NO CONCEALED
    HANDGUNS

    In a law enforcement facility, meaning in any building or on
    premises occupied by a law enforcement agency of the state, a
    county, a municipality, a company police agency, or a campus
    law enforcement facility.

    g) Department of Correction facility: NO CONCEALED
    HANDGUNS

    In a correctional facility, meaning in a building or on premises
    operated by the North Carolina Department of Correction.

    h) Offices of state or federal government: NO CONCEALED
    HANDGUNS

    In any building housing only federal or state offices, or in any
    office used by the state or federal government in any other
    building.

    i) Financial institutions: NO CONCEALED HANDGUNS
    In a financial institution, including banks, savings and loan, or
    credit unions.

    j) Anywhere a conspicuous sign posted: NO CONCEALED
    HANDGUNS

    On any premises where a conspicuous notice is posted, or
    statement is made by the person in charge, that carrying a
    concealed weapon is prohibited. Any property owner has the
    right to prohibit possession of a concealed handgun. Notice
    may be given personally by the person in charge of the
    premises or by a conspicuous sign.
    If the law prohibits only concealed handguns, and not all
    firearms, a person with a concealed carry permit will comply
    with the law by moving the handgun from a concealed to an
    open, nonconcealed position. Of course, that may not be
    practical under all circumstances.
    Also, a person in charge of any private premises may prohibit
    an openly possessed or concealed handgun by using the
    trespass law. The occupant can, under the trespass law, order a
    person openly carrying a firearm to leave. If the order to leave
    is not obeyed, criminal trespass has been committed. Nothing
    in the Aconcealed carry statute authorizes possession of any
    weapon contrary to the wishes of the person in charge of
    private property.
    Suppose the person in charge of private property posts a
    conspicuous sign prohibiting all firearms, open and concealed,
    handguns or long guns. That use of trespass law is probably
    valid. Going on that premise may be criminal trespass
    .

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array Bunny's Avatar
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    Thank you! My cheat sheet is in my range bag in the car. Whoops :)
    Don't frisk me, I am the weapon.


    Sig Sauer P239 DAK (9mm)
    NRA Member & Pistol Instructor

    www.vanguardnc.com

  7. #7
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the replies. I printed out the cheat sheet. Thanks.

    Additionally, I noticed one city cited was the Chapel Hill hippies, but I wasn't aware Cary was a No-OC town as well.

    s/on

    It's nice to know all people will live in peace and harmony if you just make carrying a firearm illegal - for law abiding citizens....

    s/off
    Last edited by MadMac; July 15th, 2009 at 04:27 PM.

  8. #8
    Member Array tflhndn's Avatar
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    Cary ban on OC is paper tiger...

    Cary does have a town ordinance that bans open carry, BUT, state court cases have determined that the ordinance in unenforceable as state preemption laws allow cities to "regulate" the "display" (i.e. open carry) of firearms on public streets, but cannot "ban" the display of them.

    I know many who OC in Cary and have no problem as the local police are pretty familiar with the situation.

    As for Chapel Hill, they have an ordinance that makes it illegal to openly carry any "concealable" handgun. For the purposes of Chapel Hill's ordinance, this is limited to guns (IIRC) under 6 inches in their longest dimension (i.e. pocket gun, Kel-Tecs, etc.)

    Even my 3" Kimber can be legally carried openly in Chapel Hill.

    Just make sure YOU know the laws and are comfortable that you are not breaking any of them in those two cities - they are by far the most gun-phobic spots in North Carolina.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array Shadowsbane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunny View Post
    Illegal in Cary and Chapel Hill, I believe, We are "ambiguous Open Carry" here in NC, which as I understand it means that statewide, we should be able to OC. BUT...local municipalities can make their own rules regarding OC, so if they decide it's not ok, then CC or NO-C instead. So far though, only Chapel Hill and Cary seem to have drunk the Kool Aid.
    Fuquay-Varina, and Holly Springs are also on that list. Not sure about Angier or Lillington, but I wouldn't hold your breath.
    Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.

    www.Lonelymountainleather.com

  10. #10
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Thank you for that.

    I also carry a 3" Kimber - on my hip now and have carried it (concealed) around Cary and Raleigh all day today.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array Shadowsbane's Avatar
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    A few things to keep in mind are

    1) Police do not know every law on the books, especially relatively odd ones they don't have to deal with as often. Depending on your area, you will have more of a headache than others.

    2) State pre-emption in this area is pretty weak. Since while there is no law against open carry, there is no law for it either. So it could be argued effectively that they are not going against state law in this matter.

    3) Either way you can end up spending a pretty penny defending yourself on some bogus claim.
    Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.

    www.Lonelymountainleather.com

  12. #12
    Member Array imatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowsbane View Post
    Fuquay-Varina, and Holly Springs are also on that list. Not sure about Angier or Lillington, but I wouldn't hold your breath.
    Since when is Fuquay and Holly Springs on the list?

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array Shadowsbane's Avatar
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    My CC instructor mentioned an incident about 2-3 years ago that happened in Fuquay-Varina. Some guy ended up having a cover garment pulled back and exposing his firearm. Police were called and it was a bad day all around from what I understand.

    Guy also mentioned something similar happening in Holly Springs around the same time. Unfortunately I don't know more than that, except that the instructor seemed to have a decent head on his shoulders, and didn't seem to be against OC in general.
    Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.

    www.Lonelymountainleather.com

  14. #14
    Member Array imatt's Avatar
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    Even when OC is allowed, people can still call the police and claim all kinds of things that would cause the police to respond in a similar fashion. I am not aware of any Fuquay town policy that forbids OC, and I believe that incident to be outside the norm.

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowsbane View Post
    My CC instructor mentioned an incident about 2-3 years ago that happened in Fuquay-Varina. Some guy ended up having a cover garment pulled back and exposing his firearm. Police were called and it was a bad day all around from what I understand.

    Guy also mentioned something similar happening in Holly Springs around the same time. Unfortunately I don't know more than that, except that the instructor seemed to have a decent head on his shoulders, and didn't seem to be against OC in general.
    CC instructors, even the very best, have been know to pass on other than shall we say the gospel truth. I know this because I have inside info. It's not easy to make sure that there is a delineation between course material and "extra information". As to F-V and Holly Springs having instances involving open carry I wouldn't doubt it in the least, but I bet there are several hundred cities and municipalities that also have had cases of run ins with open carry. It doesn't mean they (law enforcement) were right or the people in question were penalized for it, just that they had a less that comfortable talk with law enforcement.

    No one said that exercising your rights was easy. Every right has responsibilities and for 2A it's your responsibility to be researching laws and staying within them.

    To paraphrase "Mr. Bow Tie"

    When in doubt, don't carry.

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