Concerns about type of holster for OC - Page 2

Concerns about type of holster for OC

This is a discussion on Concerns about type of holster for OC within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; When I OC I tend to favor a 3 o' clock position with a forward cant. This keeps it away from the hip bone and ...

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  1. #16
    Member Array Jblack44's Avatar
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    When I OC I tend to favor a 3 o' clock position with a forward cant. This keeps it away from the hip bone and the draw is forward motion in front of me. Would be very hard if not almost impossible to be drawn from behind me. Also as stated above the SA is elevated and the forearm is always just above the grip.


  2. #17
    Member Array dirtysanchez's Avatar
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    I use the SERPA paddle while I OC as well.

    I have been looking for a leather belt holster without a snap-type thumb break-just don't like them, cheesy looking.

    Do any of you have any experience with the Desantis Chek-Mate? It has a thumb release lever of some sort but the photos on their website do not show how this thing works.

    While the SERPA is nice, it does hold my weapon away from my body quite a bit which I have learned to deal with. I'd like a level II leather belt holster which holds the weapon a bit closer to my side.

    Any other suggestions?

    Dirty

  3. #18
    JD
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    I used to think that only a more beefy retention holster would do...

    Until I was willfully disarmed by a LEO while carrying in my Galco Avenger, the officer could hardly get the gun out while I was complying, had it been a grab I could have had the guy for breakfast.

    So, while an active retention holster isn't a bad idea, I would go so far as to say that it's not a requirement either. The Galco Avenger is an open top design with tension screw adjustment, however the draw needs to be vertical from directly above the gun, any grab from the front, side, or rear and that gun won't budge.

  4. #19
    Member Array NoNameMan's Avatar
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    I like to use the SERPA too. It has a lot going for it and it doesn't cost much. I use the belt slot and not the paddle because with the paddle I couldn't remove it with my pants on. With that said I also wouldn't hesitate to use an open top leather holster for OC. I'm in the market for a good one for a 4'' 1911 that I can carry cross-draw at 9-10 o'clock. Any suggestions? That Galco Avenger JD spoke of may fit the bill. Never cared much for thumb breaks.
    "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    unload your gun and have a friend try to get the gun out of your holster while you practice retention skills and ways to offensively strike with your elbow or palm to his face,while moving away
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  6. #21
    Member Array eldorado's Avatar
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    Have you seen the Aker XR-2 Natural #186
    It was designed to protect against "gun grabs"
    *Aker

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    Blackhawk SERPA fan here as well packin' a GLOCK G19. I WILL NOT ever again consider carrying cross-draw without manual retention after a U.S. Marshall (gun-buddy of mine) showed me the speed & ease with which I could be disarmed. Cat quick & it's OVER!
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  8. #23
    Senior Member Array Rob P.'s Avatar
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    I wear a Bianchi Carry-Lok when I am OC'ing or whenever I'm wearing a suit/jacket. The retention works very well but I do not carry it for that reason.

    As for those who are paranoid about a "weapons grab," when was the last time you had your wallet stolen? It's usually in your pants pocket right where pickpockets know you carry it yet you likely haven't had that happen to you.

    Why?

    Because the odds are EXTREMELY low even if you don't have any SA. The same applies to your weapon. For those who practice Situational Awareness the odds of an unknown person making a weapons grab is practically non-existent.

    TRAINED personnel who demonstrate how to disarm someone are NOT "real world" examples. They have spent time studying & training on how to disarm someone when that person is aware that it is impending. In the real world, the person who "may" make an attempt to grab your weapon does not have that training nor does that person care to undertake the hours of study necessary. It is a comparison designed to make you feel inferior unless you've done as the instructor teaches.

    As for being disarmed by an assailant who has approached you unaware, if someone was going to do this to you while you are OC'ing they will likely HIT YOU with something first from behind and disable you completely from the shock. At that point they can disarm you at their leisure and NO retention system will prevent it.

    Your job is to prevent them from doing that BEFORE they get close enough. IF that is the case, then you do not actually "need" a retention holster for normal every-day OC.

    Awareness is fine, paranoia is strategically and mentally unsound.

  9. #24
    Senior Member Array kellyII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    unload your gun and have a friend try to get the gun out of your holster while you practice retention skills and ways to offensively strike with your elbow or palm to his face,while moving away
    wonder how many of those offensive strikes its gonna take before his friend says thats enough of the elbows to my face

    just thought that was kinda funny

  10. #25
    Ex Member Array NavyLT's Avatar
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    I have a holster with just a thumb break retention strap. If I get nervous about people in close quarters I just keep the gun tightly held between my ribs and my elbow.

  11. #26
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    I have the Safariland 6378 ALS.

    I prefer it to the SERPA for two reasons:

    1. The release is a thumb lever that is easy to use, but hidden from the gun-snatcher-to-be

    2. It is lined, which is a huge plus in reducing excessive wear, especially on parkerized guns. I don't mind character, but I try to avoid excessive abuse

    It also comes with both paddle and belt slide like the SERPA, but has no reports of the SERPA's anecdotal button-jamming (which I'm sure is much less common than made out to be by many)

  12. #27
    Member Array eldorado's Avatar
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    I spoke with the Blackhawk Co. today,they DON'T have a holster to fit my Ultra 3", They do have one for a 4" Colt 1911,which I won't buy.

  13. #28
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Once you get used to carrying (IWB or OWB), you'll be more aware of that area as well as grow eyes in the back of your head. Holsters made in different materials might matter a bit such as leather I think tends to hold a pistol tighter since it conforms more to your hip as opposed to kydex that's specifically molded for the pistol and keeps it's shape with or without pistol may be easier to pick off. I don't think either type holster would be easy for a grab from behind unless it happens to be a straight drop holster. An attacker from behind and you with a forward cant holster of any type and they wouldn't have the best position nor the leverage to do so. A frontal grab in this instance might be easier, but still.....the pistol would be backwards, and your natural reactions should block such a move since your arm on the pistol side should be covering or very close. (Don't reach for something on the top shelf with your strong hand). I don't believe in the snaps or straps on any holster as positive retention, just like I don't believe in unnecessary levers, decockers, or safeties personally. Everyone should do as they need to do and what works best (fastest?) for themselves. Thing is.....if somebody really wants your pistol without a hassle, they'll either stab you in the back, or shoot you, or incapacitate you in some way first. That's what you should prepare yourself for before you start getting worried about someone grabbing for your pistol just to see if they can.
    I've tried a rather unconventional way for open carry myself. I've used my Scorpion IWB holster inside the waist band like it was intended, but tucked my shirt on the inside of the holster. This method is very easy for me to deal with since I carry with the same holster concealed all of the time in my home state. I am also very fast with a leather OWB holster which I like, and it's what I've been using at USPSA matches. An Ahern 3-slot pancake holster, and it's very smooth to draw and conforms to my body so well that it has very good retention and quite possibly better than the kydex holster I normally wear for CC. There is a difference in draw techniques (for those who don't have or use both types of holsters)........(and I'm leaving out the ballistic nylon holsters with or without velcro straps here for good reason so please don't hate me).
    Kydex holsters.........heavy or thin........take a snatch and grab technique or jerk for draw since those types of holsters tend to snap lock the pistol into place because of the way they are molded, and because they are plastic and need a form of retention somewhat equal to a leather holster. Leather on the other hand is a more smooth pull for draw and depending on quality and type of holster used, may become looser fitting for the pistol over time to retain it's retentive qualities such as when it was brand new. This is why some types of leather holsters have a screw or screws that effectively tighten the fit to pistol or retention of the holster. What I've explained here should not be mistaken as pros and cons for or against kydex vs. leather...( I use them both very effectively and to me they are equal).
    I may have gotten off on a tangent here for the original post, but I tend to do that now and then because I like explaining how I see things. But the best we can do (and we all should have in common).....is to be prepared for just about anything, and maybe more prepared for anything if we choose to carry openly. I harbor no arguments for or against open carry. Personally, I think we should all take advantage of what we're given, and at the same time respect those who choose not to. Keep practicing (and this can be done at home with no ammo), honing the techniques, and keeping that edge on the spidey senses. Life is too short to worry about everything even if there seems to be a good reason to worry. May you succeed in everything you do.

  14. #29
    Ex Member Array jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    if you're going to OC, you should definitely get a retention holster. Blackhawk SERPAs are great. also, invest in some retention training, and a weapon for your off hand, like a pocket folder. and, of course, the most important thing to have is the proper mindset. situational awareness is important, whether you CC or OC.

  15. #30
    Senior Member Array EvilMonk's Avatar
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    I have a SERPA holster for my 1911, and I really like the way the paddle "barbs" hold that sucker on there.

    I have pulled them out some when doing practice draws (unloaded), and I can see the desire for the belt loops. I can take off the paddle without taking off the pants, and I believe the poster who said something about the weight distribution of the paddle being better than the belt loop set-up.

    I have issues with personal space too KellyII. After being in some of the most hostile environments (especially urban) and having various experiences that were not exactly friendly in nature, I know all to well the desire to keep a watch on my 6. I've gotten better, but sometimes I feel like I'm too comfortable.

    In the end, I think Ram Rod is right, any number of things could happen. The Virgin Mary could descend from Heaven Above and distract you by raining gifts of Happiness upon your being while Space Aliens disarm you with their disintegrater ray.

    The point is, you can only do so much before you're in the market for a tin hat and a "specially padded coat".
    That which does not kill us leaves us broken and bleeding...

    Donít mess with the guy who can barely stand up. His remaining options for self-defense don't include your survival.

    Convenire Volui Spectatus

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