TFA meeting: lets beat up on the OC guy - Page 2

TFA meeting: lets beat up on the OC guy

This is a discussion on TFA meeting: lets beat up on the OC guy within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I think a good thing would be to name this person, especially if he has his own website so we can all give this misguided ...

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Thread: TFA meeting: lets beat up on the OC guy

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    I think a good thing would be to name this person, especially if he has his own website so we can all give this misguided fool a piece of our collective minds....
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry


  2. #17
    Member Array llongshot's Avatar
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    Problem is, sick as it sounds, in some areas he's probably right. A SWAT team member arriving at an event site is pumped full of adrenalin and looking for any threat he/she can nullify. You can get caught in the maelstrom. Some cops also love bending the law to suit themselves. Last and probably worst. Many prosecutors, faced with a high profile shooting, will pander to the general public to get reelected. Helps if you live in a pro gun area.

  3. #18
    Ex Member Array Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by llongshot View Post
    Problem is, sick as it sounds, in some areas he's probably right. A SWAT team member arriving at an event site is pumped full of adrenalin and looking for any threat he/she can nullify. You can get caught in the maelstrom. Some cops also love bending the law to suit themselves. Last and probably worst. Many prosecutors, faced with a high profile shooting, will pander to the general public to get reelected. Helps if you live in a pro gun area.
    If he's a REAL adrenaline junky, he should put himself in the position of either paying his mortgage OR the settlement agreement with me that he signed that's NOT dischargeable in bankruptcy. Not THAT'S real excitement!

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoNameMan View Post
    This is disappointing to hear. A law professor/lawyer should know better...
    I've been saying this about constitutional law professor B.H.Obama since three years ago, but alas nobody will listen to me on that item...either.

    I really feel for the OP.
    Kudos to him for standing up amongst what had to be uncomfortable conditions and having the _backbone_ to speak up and out.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    Good for you! I've been saying this a lot lately. What do we gain as gun owners by hiding the fact through not getting involved or CC instead of OC. Don't get me wrong I now do both. But given the chance I'll OC to make the statement that normal people carry guns. He's the type of clown that says, "Don't get me wrong, I believe in the 2A...." And then tells you to hide it and never say anything. Good grief. If I choose to go back I would talk to someone about getting a speaker who was clearly incompetent to talk to the group about gun laws.

  6. #21
    Senior Member Array Jmac00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TN_Mike View Post
    Last Thursday (Aug 20) I went to the Shelby County (TN) TFA meeting (Tennessee Firearms Association). Every third Thursday we have it. It is a good time. We talk about gun laws and events here in West Tennessee.

    Well, this meeting was a bit different. We had a speaker that we had not had before. A local law professor, lawyer and speaker. This guy is a piece of work I can tell you. His whole speech was basically telling us we should never subscribe to any gun magazines, don't visit gun related web sites, don't talk about guns and your knowledge of them and ammo. Really, he was telling us that he is a scum bag lawyer and he has represented scum bags who sue permit holders who have had to shoot in defense of self and that he grills the permit holders on their gun magazine reading, their internet activity as it pertains to guns and self defense and all sorts of other things. He even suggests that ranges and training institutions should re-name their courses to sound less scary. Don't call a class "tactical shotgun" but rather "home defense shotgun" to sound less aggressive. (I can see the logic, although small, in this)

    Then he said that we here in Tennessee have to carry concealed and I couldn't take it any more. I interrupted his speech and told him he was wrong. Another man in the meeting actually spoke up as well. We explained that the permit is not a concealed carry permit but that open carry is 100% legal and I told him that I do it all the time. He rolled his eyes (I hate that ) and told me that I was foolish for doing so. He told me that he had ridden with the Memphis PD SWAT team and they loved putting what they call "Smart assed open carriers" on the ground for carrying their gun uncovered.

    I told him that if that happens, it would be fine and I would surely take legal action after I was released for committing no crime. He again told me I was foolish. I kind of lost it and told him I would think that someone who is supposed to be a law professor and lawyer but does not even know that the TN permit is not a CCW permit shouldn't be calling anyone foolish.

    Then the loud mouthed retired cop we have at the meetings decided to speak up and tell me that I would surely be the first one shot if I was in a store that got robbed. Mind you, he said this while wearing a "Shoot-me-first-vest" that had a light spot worn on the side where is fat arm rubs his pistol when he walks!

    The end result was, it was a crappy meeting, with a lot of bad info presented by the speaker, info that I have seen refuted by the likes of nationally recognized experts like Massad Ayoob and Clint Smith in many articles and books. To top it off, I get beat up on by a few of the members for carrying openly when any self defense firearms organization such as the TFA should be focused on just getting as many people legally carrying regardless of the mode of carry, and I had a really bad time and am considering never going to another.

    I used to have a link to the TFA home page in my signature, but no more. I just can't support them when they will have a speaker like this clown put me down because I choose to not be ashamed that I carry and do so openly!
    I would suggest the TFA needs you more than ever. SOMEONE needs to step up to the plate and educate these people and it sounds like your just the guy for the task.

    Now is NOT the time to back down, NOW is the time to go on offense. Do us all a favor and go---->
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  7. #22
    Senior Member Array walvord's Avatar
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    Your group can now delete him from the speakers list. Good job standing up for yourself.
    The most exhilarating thing in life is getting shot at with no results.
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  8. #23
    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    You did more to educate the group than the lawyer did.

    It's easy for me to say this from the comfort of my chair, but I hope you go back and continue educating the others. I can understand if you don't want to go back, though.

    Only you know whether it's worth it to you to help the group, or leave them to their own demise. Some people are beyond help, and then it only becomes a waste of time to try and help them.

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    I appreciate the kind words of support guys! I may go back to another meeting. It's a month away and will probably have cooled down by then.

    It is just so disheartening to go to what is supposed to be a gun friendly group and then be told by the speaker, who is supposed to also be gun friendly, and some other members that how I choose to carry is the wrong way and I am foolish for doing so.

    By the way, the speakers name is Professor Mike Roberts.
    Mike Roberts


    And this just in! (always wanted to say that) I emailed Massad Ayoob Friday night about this experience and explained what happened and what was said in the speech by the good "Professor" and I just got an email back from Massad himself. Below is the text of the email. It's short but I think it validates my concerns.

    From: massadayoob@aol.com <massadayoob@aol.com>

    Re: Speaker

    Wow, Mike...that guy doesn't seem to have any experience at all in this sort of case.

    I don't recall any one articleof mine that touched all those bases, but I can tell you that you seem to recall my positions on these issues correctly.

    Cordially,

    Mas
    massadayoob@aol.com
    That's good enough for me.
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  10. #25
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TN_Mike View Post
    To top it off, I get beat up on by a few of the members for carrying openly when any self defense firearms organization such as the TFA should be focused on just getting as many people legally carrying regardless of the mode of carry, and I had a really bad time and am considering never going to another.
    Are there any "leaders" of this TFA organization? Seems to me they need to have their ears "bent" a little about the sanity of having anti-gunners being brought in as experts to discuss topics about which they have little little knowledge. This individual's biased opinions were in direct contravention of Tennessee law.

    The good thing is, the schmuck doesn't run TFA. The ostensible "leaders" do. So, you've got a shot at helping them to pull the finger out. Seems to me you could line up a couple well-informed guests to come visit the next meeting, people who could help set the membership straight on how foolish the lawyer's (and his desciples') opinions were at a time when so much progress has been made against anti-gunners.

    Chin up, Mike. You aren't the bad guy, here. I'll warrant, neither are these TFA "leaders," despite being taken in by the wolf in sheep's clothing. Time to find your own "sheep." You know ... a sheriff or two, a ranking police officer or two, a pro-gun attorney or two, folks who will recognize that this nascent TFA organization is going to head down the flusher of anti-ism if it's not turned around.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  11. #26
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Here's a Virginia firearms speakers group that you might convince to cross a state line to give you their expertise:

    The Virginia Center for Public Safety

    Dear Friends,

    The Virginia Center for Public Safety would like to announce the addition of a Speakers Bureau to our advocacy work in gun violence prevention and reduction.

    We are encouraged with the attention that gun violence prevention initiatives are gathering in this election year and would like to offer to you and any groups with which you work or volunteer, the opportunity for education on the many, many issues we research in our effort to keep Virginians safe from gun violence. These speakers are all volunteers and will gladly work with your group to find suitable & appropriate venues, times and programs to suit your requests. We will gladly come to any area of the state.

    Here are just a few of the topics our volunteers can present:

    Making Common Sense of the Second Amendment
    Empowering Youth to Speak Out on Gun Violence
    Gun Violence vs. Gospel Values
    Massacre at Virginia Tech – A Wake-Up Call, One Mother’s Story
    Gun Rights & Responsibility
    Guns & Domestic Violence
    A History of Gun Laws in Virginia
    Microstamping & Gun Trafficking
    A History of the Virginia Center for Public Safety

    Additionally, board member Josh Horwitz is available to discuss his new book:
    Guns, Democracy & the Insurrectionist Idea.

    For your convenience, we've posted an easy-to-use request form on our Website.

    Click HERE to go to the request form.

    Many more details can be found on our Website: The Virginia Center for Public Safety. We are hopeful that all people concerned with the issue of gun violence will help us educate their fellow Virginians on ideas and proven methods to prevent these tragedies by scheduling one of our many speakers for your group or organization.

    Please do hesitate to contact VACPS Board Member Lori Haas directly with your questions. She is happy to work with you in any way to facilitate to your requests. She can be reached by phone: (757) 423-8801 or by email at info@vacps.org

    As always, the Virginia Center for Public Safety is grateful for your support and together we will do all we can to prevent and reduce gun violence in Virginia.

    Sincerely,

    Kaye Tice, President
    The Virginia Center for Public Safety
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  12. #27
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    I would have expected better from this man, and those in charge who may have agreed with him. His attitude is what happened with the class 3 firearms. People willing to give up what they don't personally use.

    The anti's know this and use it to their advantage. Doing things one bite at a time and they win in the long run. You can't keep anything by giving someone else's right away. It like eating an elephant. Go slowly one bite at a time an you will consume it all in time.

    Michael

  13. #28
    Senior Member Array puncho's Avatar
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    I don't want to say this, but he might have had a few valid points. I learn from idiots, not try to educate them.

  14. #29
    Senior Member Array kellyII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puncho View Post
    I don't want to say this, but he might have had a few valid points. I learn from idiots, not try to educate them.
    WHAT???? Are you for real

    From what TnMike said, this guy is a complete dummy who didnt even know the laws of the state for which he was preaching..

    I try to shy away from idiots, I find it hard to learn anything from morons and really dont want to either.. I find myself trying to educate myself from COMPONENT people who have the facts and know the issues at hand.. JMHO

  15. #30
    Senior Member Array Andy W.'s Avatar
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    Mike, I certainly understand your not wanting to go back there. However, it may be better if you use this as an opportunity to educate the ignorant.
    America: Your government is not ignoring you, it's insulting you.

    The Bill of Rights: Void where prohibited by law.

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