Ignorance of the law, kindness and the Reston Town Center - Page 2

Ignorance of the law, kindness and the Reston Town Center

This is a discussion on Ignorance of the law, kindness and the Reston Town Center within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by LM2024 Agreed. If the SHTF and you had to use your firearm to defend yourself/loved ones and there's alcohol on your breath ...

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Thread: Ignorance of the law, kindness and the Reston Town Center

  1. #16
    kpw
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    Quote Originally Posted by LM2024 View Post
    Agreed. If the SHTF and you had to use your firearm to defend yourself/loved ones and there's alcohol on your breath or witnesses stated to the police and media that they saw you drinking, guess how it's going to be portrayed in the media? Then the OP has done more harm to the cause than good.

    Legal to carry and consume alcohol? Yes. Is it wise to do so? IMHO, I don't think so.
    Honestly, if the SHTF, the last thing I would be concerned about is my appearance for the cause. I'd worry more about belonging to some supposed right-wing gun forums. I doubt most media will protray you in a favorable light to begin with. At best, neutral, maybe.


    I apologize to the OP, I went off topic. No more from me.
    Last edited by kpw; September 7th, 2009 at 11:26 PM. Reason: added
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  2. #17
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    To OP, you did everything well.

    To the side topic. In MI, a minor amount of drinking and carrying can produce many legal problems. That is assuming that just being served and carrying does not somehow violate the permit.

    However, IMHO, I don't think having a few drinks and carrying is the same as drunk driving. I don't do either, but I'm guessing, it is only the legal issues that hold me back from drinking a beer while carrying. The same is not true concerning drinking and driving. I would not drink and drive regardless of the law.
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  3. #18
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    My personal view is that one should be judged by their actions, not by what someone else thinks their actions might lead to.

    For example - if you choose to drive your vehicle and not use a seat belt, that only becomes a problem if YOU become a burden on society because you suffered a preventable traumatic brain injury when you were ejected from your vehicle as it was rolling over.

    There's a lot of scrambling for moral high ground here with absolutes expressed with the "I wouldn't drink if... " and "I wouldn't serve you if...", and I respect those opinions. However, I see those as awfully close to the opinions of those who would restrict our freedom to carry arms (concealed or not) based on the feeling that "someone might get hurt" simply because someone is armed.

    Sleep deprivation and the use of over-the-counter medications can create far riskier decision-making processes than the use of alcohol in moderation, and both are far more common (and responsible for personal injuries) than is widely appreciated. That's not an invitation for people to go armed while drinking, it's just a recognition that there are numerous acceptable behaviors which adversely affect decision-making, and in the end it's not the behavior but the outcome which needs to be judged.
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  4. #19
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    I am amazed by the number of people who do not think they can be trusted with a gun after drinking a beer, then feel the need to project this on others. Lots of feel-good sheep tonight.

    The situations were well handled. Thanks for portraying a positive image of OC'rs by keeping your cool and keeping on the "nice guy" face in the restaurants. Sounds like an interesting night that will lead to smoother nights in the future,.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpw View Post
    Honestly, if the SHTF, the last thing I would be concerned about is my appearance for the cause. I'd worry more about belonging to some supposed right-wing gun forums. I doubt most media will protray you in a favorable light to begin with. At best, neutral, maybe.


    I apologize to the OP, I went off topic. No more from me.
    Then by all means, enjoy your alcoholic beverages when you carry. It's illegal in my state but it's legal in yours.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by justherenow View Post
    I hate to say it, I would not have served you. I support carry in all modes, but not when one is drinking, it only takes one drink here and another there and all the sudden we have a drunk man with a gun call.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    Well done...??? Good job....??? Really....???
    While I support the right to OC, I sure as heck wont give you an ata-boy for OC'ing while bar hopping....
    Well, first off, let's consider the first statement by the OP:

    Quote Originally Posted by nkanofolives View Post
    First off, I am not here to discuss the philosophies of drinking while carrying (there are plenty of threads on the topic)
    I think the manager certainly would have the right to choose to server or not to serve in their establishment. About the only one who could contradict that would be the establishment's owner. So justherenow, you would have been perfectly in your rights.

    That said, leaving out the alcohol issue, I think the handling of the various situations (taking the OP totally at face value) WAS good, and probably had an overall positive impact on these people's perception of people who OC.

    As for the consumption of alcohol (again, accepting the OP at face value), it appears that he consumed 2-3 drinks total in the course of an evening. If this was anything like MY evening's out with my wife, that would have been 2-3 drinks over the course of 4-5 hours.

    With that amount of alcohol consumption over that period of time, should he have been driving?

    As always, it comes right back to personal responsibility.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astute View Post
    My concern is that if an incident were to occur, even the hint of alcohol on your breath could cause big problems even if you were 100% correct.
    Good point.

  8. #23
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    I think you did fine.

    The anti's say we shouldn't carry guns because we will shoot someone.

    Sounds like some here are saying that when carrying we should not have a drink or two because that's irresponsible.

    If you are responsible enough to carry a gun, you are responsible enough to limit your drinking to what you can tolerate without reaching the "under the influence" level.

    Having said that, I make it a PERSONAL rule not to drink while carrying away from the house.

    I have violated this rule once when I thought I was in for the day so I had a couple of beers that evening. Then a situation came up where I had to go out. Kept the gun with me then. I was not even close to being under the influence.

    Like I said, the OP did good.
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  9. #24
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    Mixing alcohol with anything is going to create more problems. But I want to know who the person is that drinks and then proceeds to get a gun out and waves it all around? I carry a knife for utility and personal protection. I happen to have drank heavily on Sunday. At no point did I feel the need to start waving my knife around at anybody that looked at me funny (btw wife drove home). Sure a gun maybe considered more lethal than a knife, but all the same they both can kill. I don't CC yet, and I am sure it is illegal in my state. But if it wasn't I wouldn't see a problem.

  10. #25
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    I think you handled the education of others quite well.

  11. #26
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    +1 on the interactions, neutral on the combining OC w/ drinks. In and of itself, I don't think 1-2 drinks while carrying is any worse than 1-2 drinks when out to dinner and then driving home. But personally I think the appearance of impropriety can cause scandal to others, even if you are within the law and within your own personal limits. Then there is the liability issue others have mentioned, if SHTF and you draw or draw & fire, your legal battle will be that much more uphill if you've had *anything* to drink.

    Bold move to OC in a place like Reston Town center. I'm surprised you didn't have any stories of interactions with concerned customers.

  12. #27
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    IMO, the OP probably won a few small battles and educated a few folks. What is not being addressed is what the OP did to aid the anti-gun folks. How many sheep saw and carried their story of a 'man with a gun drinking' back to their flocks?
    Again, just my opinion and we know what that is worth.

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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random View Post
    As for the consumption of alcohol (again, accepting the OP at face value), it appears that he consumed 2-3 drinks total in the course of an evening. If this was anything like MY evening's out with my wife, that would have been 2-3 drinks over the course of 4-5 hours.

    With that amount of alcohol consumption over that period of time, should he have been driving?

    As always, it comes right back to personal responsibility.
    That's the kind of statement that depends on a number of factors.
    1) not everyone is the same. If you can't handle 2-3 drinks in a 5 hour time span...maybe you should be rethinking drinking.
    2) How much food was consumed prior and during. That also affects how much alcohol is going to actually affect you.
    3) Size and activity level play another big part. If you're 5'-nothin and 120lbs soaking wet, clearly you're going to be affected much quicker by a much smaller amount of alcohol. On the contrary, if you're 6'1, 210lbs, and exercise daily then you're going to be affected a good bit differently.

    This may help you understand this concept:
    Friends Drive Sober - Impaired Driving Prevention
    Obviously this is slightly generic, but it makes for a good approximation.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpw View Post
    Good job. Polite interaction goes a long ways and you handled it well with a good outcome.
    As for the drinking, I think you mentioned one drink, a wine sample and a beer over a considerable amount of time. I had 2 LaBatts tonight at the B-day dinner. Love a nice Porterhouse!
    Thanks. Yeah, 2.25 drinks over the course of 7+ hours. I think I was alright. We did not get home until after 1:30am, we went to dinner at like 5:30pm.

    And not to sound tooooo much like a raging alcoholic, but I can put them down. I would consider my alcohol tolerance to be considerably higher than most folks.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldogy View Post
    IMO, the OP probably won a few small battles and educated a few folks. What is not being addressed is what the OP did to aid the anti-gun folks. How many sheep saw and carried their story of a 'man with a gun drinking' back to their flocks?
    Again, just my opinion and we know what that is worth.

    oldogy
    I'm certainly not going to judge the OP, but all it takes is one anti gun person to shoot some cell phone footage of an OCer drinking a beer with his firearm on his hip to provoke some nee jerk politician in Richmond to introduce legislation banning all gun in places where alcohol is served.
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