I apologize to the OP, I went off topic. No more from me.
This is a discussion on Ignorance of the law, kindness and the Reston Town Center within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by LM2024 Agreed. If the SHTF and you had to use your firearm to defend yourself/loved ones and there's alcohol on your breath ...
I apologize to the OP, I went off topic. No more from me.
Last edited by kpw; September 7th, 2009 at 11:26 PM. Reason: added
"In a republic this rule ought to be observed: that the majority should not have the predominant power." -
-- Marcus Tullius Cicero
To OP, you did everything well.
To the side topic. In MI, a minor amount of drinking and carrying can produce many legal problems. That is assuming that just being served and carrying does not somehow violate the permit.
However, IMHO, I don't think having a few drinks and carrying is the same as drunk driving. I don't do either, but I'm guessing, it is only the legal issues that hold me back from drinking a beer while carrying. The same is not true concerning drinking and driving. I would not drink and drive regardless of the law.
S&W 642 (no-lock) with .38 Spl +P 135 GR Gold GDHP
Glock G31 & G33 with .357 Sig 125 GR. SXT Winchester Ranger
My personal view is that one should be judged by their actions, not by what someone else thinks their actions might lead to.
For example - if you choose to drive your vehicle and not use a seat belt, that only becomes a problem if YOU become a burden on society because you suffered a preventable traumatic brain injury when you were ejected from your vehicle as it was rolling over.
There's a lot of scrambling for moral high ground here with absolutes expressed with the "I wouldn't drink if... " and "I wouldn't serve you if...", and I respect those opinions. However, I see those as awfully close to the opinions of those who would restrict our freedom to carry arms (concealed or not) based on the feeling that "someone might get hurt" simply because someone is armed.
Sleep deprivation and the use of over-the-counter medications can create far riskier decision-making processes than the use of alcohol in moderation, and both are far more common (and responsible for personal injuries) than is widely appreciated. That's not an invitation for people to go armed while drinking, it's just a recognition that there are numerous acceptable behaviors which adversely affect decision-making, and in the end it's not the behavior but the outcome which needs to be judged.
NRA Endowment Member
I am amazed by the number of people who do not think they can be trusted with a gun after drinking a beer, then feel the need to project this on others. Lots of feel-good sheep tonight.
The situations were well handled. Thanks for portraying a positive image of OC'rs by keeping your cool and keeping on the "nice guy" face in the restaurants. Sounds like an interesting night that will lead to smoother nights in the future,.
That said, leaving out the alcohol issue, I think the handling of the various situations (taking the OP totally at face value) WAS good, and probably had an overall positive impact on these people's perception of people who OC.
As for the consumption of alcohol (again, accepting the OP at face value), it appears that he consumed 2-3 drinks total in the course of an evening. If this was anything like MY evening's out with my wife, that would have been 2-3 drinks over the course of 4-5 hours.
With that amount of alcohol consumption over that period of time, should he have been driving?
As always, it comes right back to personal responsibility.
I think you did fine.
The anti's say we shouldn't carry guns because we will shoot someone.
Sounds like some here are saying that when carrying we should not have a drink or two because that's irresponsible.
If you are responsible enough to carry a gun, you are responsible enough to limit your drinking to what you can tolerate without reaching the "under the influence" level.
Having said that, I make it a PERSONAL rule not to drink while carrying away from the house.
I have violated this rule once when I thought I was in for the day so I had a couple of beers that evening. Then a situation came up where I had to go out. Kept the gun with me then. I was not even close to being under the influence.
Like I said, the OP did good.
fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).
Mixing alcohol with anything is going to create more problems. But I want to know who the person is that drinks and then proceeds to get a gun out and waves it all around? I carry a knife for utility and personal protection. I happen to have drank heavily on Sunday. At no point did I feel the need to start waving my knife around at anybody that looked at me funny (btw wife drove home). Sure a gun maybe considered more lethal than a knife, but all the same they both can kill. I don't CC yet, and I am sure it is illegal in my state. But if it wasn't I wouldn't see a problem.
I think you handled the education of others quite well.
+1 on the interactions, neutral on the combining OC w/ drinks. In and of itself, I don't think 1-2 drinks while carrying is any worse than 1-2 drinks when out to dinner and then driving home. But personally I think the appearance of impropriety can cause scandal to others, even if you are within the law and within your own personal limits. Then there is the liability issue others have mentioned, if SHTF and you draw or draw & fire, your legal battle will be that much more uphill if you've had *anything* to drink.
Bold move to OC in a place like Reston Town center. I'm surprised you didn't have any stories of interactions with concerned customers.
IMO, the OP probably won a few small battles and educated a few folks. What is not being addressed is what the OP did to aid the anti-gun folks. How many sheep saw and carried their story of a 'man with a gun drinking' back to their flocks?
Again, just my opinion and we know what that is worth.
Government is out of control
"If gun laws in fact worked, the sponsors of this type of legislation should have no difficulty drawing upon long lists of examples of crime rates reduced by such legislation. That they cannot do so after a century and a half of trying -- " Sen Orrin G. Hatch
1) not everyone is the same. If you can't handle 2-3 drinks in a 5 hour time span...maybe you should be rethinking drinking.
2) How much food was consumed prior and during. That also affects how much alcohol is going to actually affect you.
3) Size and activity level play another big part. If you're 5'-nothin and 120lbs soaking wet, clearly you're going to be affected much quicker by a much smaller amount of alcohol. On the contrary, if you're 6'1, 210lbs, and exercise daily then you're going to be affected a good bit differently.
This may help you understand this concept:
Friends Drive Sober - Impaired Driving Prevention
Obviously this is slightly generic, but it makes for a good approximation.
-The Mist (2007)"My God David, We're a Civilized society."
"Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the **** out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
And not to sound tooooo much like a raging alcoholic, but I can put them down. I would consider my alcohol tolerance to be considerably higher than most folks.
Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!