This is a discussion on IKEA is Anti-Concealed Carry and Open Carry Store and presumed anti-RTBA within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Greenman If they had your plate #, they had all your info before your tail lights were out of sight, and if ...
Another reason I like to OC. Instead of someone getting a glimpse of what they think is a gun, and freak out, I'd rather that they positively know that I have a gun....and then freak out!
Potentially the 4th amendment - protection from search without cause
and let us not forget the 2nd amendment-- guns are your friend
bottom line--unless the LEO has a warrant, I don't have to talk to him. Out of courtesy, I may. In this instance I would have either stated that I am within the law (spirit and letter) and asked what exactly the problem was OR I may have handed them my carry permit and asked what the problem was. BUT the choice is MINE.
and you have the right to not OC. Your choice. HOWEVER LEO's deciding for you (or trying to) in locations where OC is legal, NEED to be challenged. A right undefended is a right lost. And as you well know (from Australian law changes) loss of gun rights is an incremental thing. Each year you wake up with a little less and eventually, you have no rights. Some of us will not stand quietly by...and it is much easier to NOT LOSE them, than to regain them.Originally Posted by aozlawman
It's reasons like that that I choose to OC. I also do it to help educate the public, make it aware that it is legal, show a possible criminal that I am armed and they might want to choose another target, and also to let people know that I will not let any government authority stop me from exercising my right to carry in a lawful mannor.
I am still really surprised at how they handled the fact that instead of simply asking you to leave or put your pistol in your car they made a huge incident out of it by calling the police. There is no excuse to call the police when someone is doing something 100% legal. Then they proceeded to say they don't ask people to leave they call the police. The dispatcher should have told loss prevention if you want them to leave go do it yourself.
We have one of their stores here and the wife and I were about to check it out. Thanks for the information. I will mark this one off my list of places to buy from. I say buy American.
The IKEA store out here in Tempe, AZ has some goofy happy-face sign with the notation to the effect that they are a peace-loving store. Haven't been there in a while, so don't hold me to the exact verbiage, but their not-so-clear intent is that they don't want people carrying guns in their store. My view is two-fold: (1) their cutesy sign is not at all clear about "no firearms", and (2) concealed is concealed.
Also, not all their stuff is junk or college dorm room quality, although I am disappointed that nearly every product comes from China. I enjoy shopping there infrequently, but that would end in a heartbeat if they posted a serious and unambiguous "no firearms" sign.
NRA Endowment Member
As far as their "no firearms sign" goes, there was no sign on the door when I entered, but here is a copy of the email they sent me in response to my email. So the question is, would you stop shopping there only if the store you visit has a sign, or after reading their "policy" that was sent to me? Again, that decision is up to the individual. Just curious though.
"Thank you for taking the time to contact us.
As a private company on private property, IKEA reserves the right to
not allow weapons inside our store.
We do apologize for any inconvenience, and we thank you for your
IKEA Customer Care Center"
My wife has been talking about going to the one in Charlotte, NC when we are down that way. It's pretty infrequent anyway. Told her yesterday we would not be checking out IKEA. She asked why. I told her about your issues and the email and here response was, "Oh, OK." Probably saved me some money I can use to fund a gun purchase!
YouTube - Don't Talk to Cops, Part 1 and YouTube - Don't Talk to Cops, Part 2
Many of us in the US are very sensitive about a "Papers Please!" society. It goes well beyond disdain of "internal passports" provisions of some totalitarian regimes.
In our Bill of Rights we are protected against unreasonable searches and seizures and against being compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against ourself.
In many of our States, these values are codified by State statute, by common law, and/or by legal judicial precedent -- e.g., here in Virginia one is only required to identify oneself if exercising a "privilege" requiring a licensing (e.g., driving on a public road) or if detained (however briefly) in an investigation (i.e., a Terry Stop).
Also, here in Virginia (see http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinio...wp/1971061.pdf), as elsewhere (e.g., see http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...-carrying.html), carrying a firearm if not a valid cause for an LEO to initiate a Terry Stop.
As open carry was legal (as in 42 States), these officers had no cause to even ask his name.
I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.
I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.
Veni, Vidi, Velcro
My "concealed is concealed" remark was just about my shopping at the local IKEA, in light of their sign which requires some clairvoyance to understand clearly. However, more to your point, AZ is an open carry state and absent any signage at the store entrance prohibiting carriage of arms, I wouldn't feel the need to disarm myself upon entering.
As to the email response you got from IKEA, how much more ambiguous can they get? They define their rights as a private enterprise, but leave you hanging as far as a statement of policy. The clown who wrote that lacks the gonads to step up and clearly state "no guns allowed in our stores." I'm enough of a troublemaker to poke back at them and get them to commit in writing that they do not allow firearms in their store, and to ask them how a potential shopper is supposed to know their store policy if it isn't clearly posted.
NRA Endowment Member
"Hey I got a reply...
Dear Mr. (Me)
Thank you for taking the time to share your concerns. We appreciate your feedback.
At IKEA, we choose to be a weapons free environment.
Have a good day,
So I guess it IS in writing now.
Ok, so I'm eating ice cream out of my IKEA bowl as I read this.
IKEA is heavily influenced by their socialist, post-modern scandinavian roots (I'm Swedish so I can say that ). I have a friend who was needing a job and looked at applying there and he ran into an aweful lot of their "way-beyond-diversity" company policies that he decided to find work elsewhere.
So, no big surprises here. However, the employee should have asked you to leave himself. And the Cops should have handled it better.
God is love (1 John 4:8)
IKEA is free to have any rules they want.
I am free to spend my money they way I please.
I choose to NEVER spend a dime at IKEA.
Your second amendment rights are showing!