SECOND AMENDMENT - What do you think?

This is a discussion on SECOND AMENDMENT - What do you think? within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; In addition some who are referred to as sheep or sheeple are combat vets of wars and LE including the Border Patrol, and have seen ...

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Thread: SECOND AMENDMENT - What do you think?

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    In addition some who are referred to as sheep or sheeple are combat vets of wars and LE including the Border Patrol, and have seen more combat and participated in more gunfights than most here will ever get close to. Whatever they are, they are not sheep.
    Well said and very true. I don't know of anyone who has actually "seen the elephant" so to speak who advocates the loud mouthed, flash your weaponry, scare the sheep style of so called exercising ones rights.

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  3. #47
    Member Array Steve O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pro2A View Post
    I've open carried a rifle before. Does that make me a nut? A right not exercised is a right lost. Don't forget that.
    I'm sorry but it seems they already have forgotten it. Too many on gun forums are to a scared a their rights to actually use them and that's the very reason we'll probably never get to take full advantage of our 2A rights. They carry guns but their way to afraid to take the bull by the horns.

  4. #48
    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    I had to take a step back on this one. If he was carrying a Glock everyone here would be crying foul. So the concern is the actual gun. Remember He wasnt in the local walmart. Outside of the gun I agree with what he did, and im not so sure about my feelings about the gun. It is a pistol and he was within his legal right to do what he did.

    He was in a national park. Not main street. So a question I have to ask. Whats the difference in scaring sheeple in the national park or scaring sheeple in the local walmart with a glock on your hip. Does OCing in the local walmart help us out. It was said a few posts back, that just because its legal doesnt mean it should be done.

  5. #49
    Senior Member Array usmc3169's Avatar
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    That is not the image I would prefer people have of gun owners, unfortunately you cant help some people see the real world.

    I can't see how his display helped 2A supporters, but I can certainly see how it hurts. Just my two cents, and please dont call me a sheep or some variant. That is just silly.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

  6. #50
    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    He was not in a National Park, but a State Park. It is illegal at this time to carry in a National Park. I think sometime in Feb is when it is legal in a NP.

    Regards,
    Jerry

  7. #51
    Member Array Faitmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    Well Charlie, when attention seekers like this guy become visible enough to have an impact on how American gun laws are enacted please let us know how that works out for you. You see guys like this are doing nothing more than playing into the hands of the likes of the Bloombergs and the Bradys. Itís a misguided loyalty that would support them in their childish spectacles. As for me, Iíll support anyone who genuinely promotes gun ownership and the RKBA but I canít get behind attention seeking fools who really couldnít care less that they might be doing sabotage to our cause.
    Unfortunately, that's what most CC people think of all OC people. Where do you draw the line? Personally, I think he was being deceitful with the orange tip, but I'm ok with everything else. I've heard this story all over America and it was normal every day pistols, not the freak variations like the AK pistol (which is ugly), so where does it stop or even better... where does it begin?

    Maybe this will educate the public that it is legal and should not be "scary". Maybe the guy commenting could have simply left it at "It is completely legal" and not put out all the bad vibe for the Brady bunch of "it's not what we would advocate". Normal is as normal does. Hopefully, some day, what he did will be normal.

    If you actually support the RTBA, than you should be supporting it in all it's variations and not just those you agree with. You all are starting to sound like the hunters who don't care about the CCers as long as their rifles are safe. It kind of disgusts me how easy it is to turn on one of your own. But hey.. as long as your pistol isn't touched.
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand

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  8. #52
    Member Array PaxMentis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    Well said and very true. I don't know of anyone who has actually "seen the elephant" so to speak who advocates the loud mouthed, flash your weaponry, scare the sheep style of so called exercising ones rights.
    Advocate? Nope.

    Defend his right to carry what he wants/is comfortable with? In a heartbeat.

    But then, I am smart enough to know that the "Right to Keep and Bear Arms That I Personally Like" isn't what the founders had in mind. And I am not foolish enough to trade off someone else's rights in an attempt to preserve mine.

  9. #53
    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    I do not agree that it is necessary to support it in all it's variations and not just those you agree with.
    I agree with free speech, but not vulgar language spoken or worn on tee shirts. I also do not agree that flag burning should be protected.

    As a soldier I was never willing to die to defend such rights, and I will not support some things that have been ruled as Constitutional rights.

    In the same manner I do not blindly follow what I consider dumb actions by anyone. That is too sheep like to suit me.
    Again it is a herd mentality to blindly follow because one says he is supporting 2A.

    I also do not agree that a right not exercised is a right lost. I do not curse, but if I did I would not do it in public. If it was ever a right it still is whether I exercise it or not.
    Don't be a blind follower like a herd following a leader off the cliff.

    Regards,
    Jerry

  10. #54
    Member Array PaxMentis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryM View Post
    I do not agree that it is necessary to support it in all it's variations and not just those you agree with.
    I agree with free speech, but not vulgar language spoken or worn on tee shirts. I also do not agree that flag burning should be protected.

    As a soldier I was never willing to die to defend such rights, and I will not support some things that have been ruled as Constitutional rights.

    In the same manner I do not blindly follow what I consider dumb actions by anyone. That is too sheep like to suit me.
    Again it is a herd mentality to blindly follow because one says he is supporting 2A.

    I also do not agree that a right not exercised is a right lost. I do not curse, but if I did I would not do it in public. If it was ever a right it still is whether I exercise it or not.
    Don't be a blind follower like a herd following a leader off the cliff.

    Regards,
    Jerry
    So you are of the "Free speech as long as you don't say anything that offends me" and "Right to Keep and Bear Arms as long as I approve of the firearm" school of constitutional thought?

    Sorry, but I see that as not only short-sighted, but flat out hypocritical...

  11. #55
    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaxMentis View Post
    So you are of the "Free speech as long as you don't say anything that offends me" and "Right to Keep and Bear Arms as long as I approve of the firearm" school of constitutional thought?

    Sorry, but I see that as not only short-sighted, but flat out hypocritical...
    But I won't be a follower or approver of the least mature individual with the poorest judgment.
    So while your assessment is not entirely correct, I guess there is some truth in it as to my approval. I do not approve of those things that are offensive or that which in reality trashes the real meaning of the Constitution re the flag burning and free speech.

    I would deny that the founders meant that the flag could be burned or that any speech was protected. I base that upon the laws earlier in our history. If you had done some of those things in the early 1900s you would have had your teeth knocked out.

    Again, I will not approve or support immature or dumb acts regardless of who does them. If that makes me a hypocrite in your eyes then color me one. I don't dodge who I am or what I believe or approve based upon someone's opinion of such.

    Regards,
    Jerry

  12. #56
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaxMentis View Post
    Advocate? Nope.

    Defend his right to carry what he wants/is comfortable with? In a heartbeat.

    But then, I am smart enough to know that the "Right to Keep and Bear Arms That I Personally Like" isn't what the founders had in mind. And I am not foolish enough to trade off someone else's rights in an attempt to preserve mine.
    Trade off someone else's rights? Nonsense. We have already established that the guy didn't break any laws. It is what it is and even though legal what it is is harmful stupidity and it's disingenuous to call it by any other name. Trade off his rights? Of course not but neither would I support actions, though legal, that could have negative influence on all those who support the RKBA. The guy has some flawed judgement if he thinks he's helping gun owners. Dear God let there be light.

  13. #57
    Member Array Faitmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryM View Post
    But I won't be a follower or approver of the least mature individual with the poorest judgment.
    So while your assessment is not entirely correct, I guess there is some truth in it as to my approval. I do not approve of those things that are offensive or that which in reality trashes the real meaning of the Constitution re the flag burning and free speech.

    I would deny that the founders meant that the flag could be burned or that any speech was protected. I base that upon the laws earlier in our history. If you had done some of those things in the early 1900s you would have had your teeth knocked out.

    Again, I will not approve or support immature or dumb acts regardless of who does them. If that makes me a hypocrite in your eyes then color me one. I don't dodge who I am or what I believe or approve based upon someone's opinion of such.

    Regards,
    Jerry
    I guess it is your right to disagree and it is mine to disagree with you. However, to disagree with someone isn't the same as supporting or not supporting. I don't believe that if I were to agree with you, I'm a sheep following a leader as I also don't believe that supporting him makes me a sheep. How about not painting every one with such a big brush, especially when it makes no sense? You have the right to say what you want, but you think I'm a sheep because I support the first amendment, even if I don't like what you say?
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand

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  14. #58
    Member Array HardCorps79's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    There is no right in the Constitution to not be offended. However, I do have a right to freedom of speech and to bear arms. The fact that I choose to limit myself does not mean that I support limitations on others. The way the founders framed it, we should be able to keep artillery pieces on our property. When the people are disbarred the use of arms that the government is allowed, the government may use its superior arms to intimidate the people. This is the very antithesis of the founders intent. The intent as articulated by Jefferson was to remind the government that the people had the capability of resistance to tyranny.

    Unfortunately by way of 100 years of slippery slope infringements, we have abdicated our liberties in the name of temporary security. Benjamin Franklin forewarned us, but we have fallen prey to tyrants through our own weakness of character.

    I don't suggest any answers, just pointing out that here were are debating things that our founding fathers never questioned. It's really our own damned fault.

    (I realize this logic stretched out implies that private citizens could thus also produce and possess nuclear weapons. The fact that our founders did not conceive of certain technological advances does not imply that the principles are void. This means that "the people", represented by the House and Senate, rather than the executive, ought to retain control of these items. Again, it's our own fault for blindly electing the most "electable" candidate as opposed to voting our conscience and liberty.)

    I will die to protect your right to say things with which I disagree and to do things which I may find deplorable, so long as they are consistent with the vision cast by the Articles of Confederation, the Constitution, and its accompanying amendments.

    The people get the government they deserve. Unfortunately as long as the majority are sheep, we will be ruled by wolves. We may well have lost the American spirit. We have certainly seen the beginning of the end of our great Republic. A democracy it was never intended to be.

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  15. #59
    Member Array hengst's Avatar
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    Daggone HardCorps, why dont you sign your posts with my name added to the bottom in agreement, it would be easier.....once again perfect....

    As I posted earlier I do not agree with what kwicker or whatever does but.......I have a hard time condemming his right, I just can't make myself do it.

    I wonder how many colonists sat in taverns (the discussion forums of yore) and condemned our founding fathers with statements like ..it does not help our cause or they will make things harder on us

    Please, no one get bent out of shape I am not saying kwicker or whatever is on the level as our founding fathers etc....just saying
    Led By Love Of Country

  16. #60
    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    "There is no right in the Constitution to not be offended. However, I do have a right to freedom of speech and to bear arms."

    Correct, but those rights are not without limits. I am sometimes offended, and I realize that will be the case, but I will not support those things that offend me. I have that right also.

    I just refuse to be led or greatly influenced by immature and dumb actions. If that is not herd mentality and sheep like then I don't know what is. If I think they are such then I won't support them.

    Whatever I am, it is not a blind follower.

    Regards,
    Jerry

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