OC in Elmore Co. Alabama

OC in Elmore Co. Alabama

This is a discussion on OC in Elmore Co. Alabama within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I just posted this at OCDC but thought I would share here also. I thought I would send a letter to my Sheriff and point ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 25
Like Tree7Likes

Thread: OC in Elmore Co. Alabama

  1. #1
    Member Array Monkeytown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    217

    OC in Elmore Co. Alabama

    I just posted this at OCDC but thought I would share here also. I thought I would send a letter to my Sheriff and point out to him the contradictions between my CPL and the law. I faxed him the letter below along with a hard copy of the Alabama Tri-fold and State of Alabama Firearms and Weapons Laws (found at Alabama Gun Law Information).

    Sheriff Franklin,

    Good afternoon, my name is Shaun Reinert and I wanted to contact you in regards to the legality of open carry of a pistol in Alabama. I am relatively new concealed pistol license (CPL) holder in Elmore County. Since receiving my permit I have joined several internet forums for people with CPLs in order to gain knowledge about concealed carry gear, situational awareness and to gather other information that will help me to become a safer and more responsible permit holder. During some of my investigation I have come across quite a bit of information that seems to indicate that open carry of a pistol is legal in the State of Alabama. I have attached two (2) documents that were put together by some folks at Alabama Gun Law Information. Would you be open to reviewing these documents and consider allowing persons within the County to carry openly without risk of arrest, detainment or possible revocation of their CPL? Id also like to suggest a visit to the website listed above for additional information on the legality of open carry in Alabama.

    Restriction #1 on my CPL states that the permit does not permit me to carrying openly, however after reviewing the attached documents it appears that it is completely within my rights to carry openly without a permit of any kind (as long as I am afoot and not in a vehicle) per Alabama Statute 13A-11-73.

    Restriction #4 states that I am not allowed to carry my pistol in any place that serves alcohol. I realize that common sense would dictate that carrying while consuming alcohol is terribly irresponsible and should be prohibited. However, would you consider it ok to carry in a restaurant that sells alcohol as long as I was not consuming?

    Restriction #5 restricts the carry of my pistol within government buildings, airport terminals, etc. However the Alabama Statute 13A-11-59(b) only restricts concealed carry while attending any demonstration being held at a public place. Also, the Statute 13A-11-72(c) & (d) specifically allows a citizen to carry a pistol on the premises of a public school as long as there is no intent to bodily harm.

    In addition, the Alabama Statute 11-45-1.1 reserves the entire subject matter of handguns to the State Legislature, thereby voiding any and all restrictions on the CPL that are not in concert with the Alabama Statutes.

    Please do not misunderstand my intentions. They are not to question or undermine your authority, but only to bring to your attention what appear to be contradictions between the law and the restrictions on my CPL. As a matter of preference I do not necessarily want to openly carry my pistol, but would like to have the option available to me, without the threat of arrest, detainment or revocation of my CPL, as it appears to be legal. Also, there is a large community of CPL holders across the State of Alabama, many of them here in Elmore County, that would also like to have this option. I know there is a concern about man with a gun calls and the difficulty in differentiating between bad guys and good guys, however there is a common saying Im sure you have heard, a right not exercised, is a right lost.

    Any thoughts or opinions you may have on this matter are greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance for taking the time to read this fax and review the attached information. I can be reached at the telephone number listed above or at my e-mail address: jkd_man2001@yahoo.com.

    Thanks again,
    Shaun

    Well, 5 minutes after I sent the fax, my phone rang and it was Sheriff Franklin!! He was very friendly and we had a fantastic conversation. He said he is all for exercising of our rights, including the right to open carry. He stated that everything I stated in my fax was true and he agreed fully. His only issue was what I stated in my next to last paragraph regarding "man with a gun" calls. He said his deputies and other city police don't know if the person with firearm is a GG or BG. Their protocol is to approach and gather information "What's goin' on?" "How are you?" etc. If everything goes well then no problem. They have been instructed, and understandably so, that on the first indication that a confrontation may occur, then the situation is escalated accordingly. This makes me fell better about maybe one day getting a wild hair and choosing to open carry. He also stated that I would be hard pressed to find a Sheriff in Alabama that did not share his views on this matter. He also stated that my letter and the attached information was very informative and they he was to keep it and reference it if he ran into any issues or questions regarding OC.
    "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." Benjamin Franklin

    Steps in the stripping of State's Rights/Sovereignty
    1. War of Northern Agression 2. Coersion to ratify the 14th Amendment 3. Ratified 17th Amendment


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array BruceGibson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Northwest Florida
    Posts
    938
    Good stuff, Monkeytown. I'm 40-miles South of Houston County (Dothan) Alabama. Don't know what the Sheriff's position is up there, but I haven't seen any OC yet. I'm up there once a week. Personally, OC doesn't bother me. It's the squirrely-looking characters that don't appear to be carrying that I keep an eye on.

  3. #3
    VIP Member
    Array oneshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    +42.893612,-082.710236 , Mi.
    Posts
    8,593
    Taken from OP letter to the sheriff;

    He also stated that I would be hard pressed to find a Sheriff in Alabama that did not share his views on this matter.

    Clearly he's mistaken, because according to HCI, (the Brady Campaign),
    the vast majority of police chief's , sheriffs and state police Commanders are totally against the 2nd . amendment


    also on a lighter note,,,,



    He also stated that my letter and the attached information was very informative and they he was to keep it and reference it if he ran into any issues or questions regarding OC.

    He was either sincere, , , , , , Or he will be running this newfound information by your states attorney general , to see if there is any way they can change this (crazy loophole)


    "If we could get everyone in the world to close their eyes and imagine world peace for an hour, think about how serene it would be until the looting started."
    I would rather die with good men than hide with cowards
    If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.
    Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy."

    M&Pc .357sig, 2340Sigpro .357sig

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array kellyII's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    West Tn, formaly Baghdad
    Posts
    518
    Well whatever his intentions are, you can only go by what he is telling you and what you believe to be true from him. I say good for you and good for him. I would think of him as a Liar, not atleast until he proves different.

  5. #5
    Member Array Monkeytown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    217
    Quote Originally Posted by kellyII View Post
    Well whatever his intentions are, you can only go by what he is telling you and what you believe to be true from him. I say good for you and good for him. I would think of him as a Liar, not atleast until he proves different.
    While I don't know him personally, my wife informed me tonight he a family friend and was in her uncles wedding. He has been the Sheriff for 19 years. Also, I don't think he would take the time to call me if his intentions were anything other than sincere. When I explained to my wife what a friendly guy he is she said "why do you think he has remained sheriff for 19 years?" Anyway I believe him, no reason not to.
    johnbergsing and FTG-05 like this.
    "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." Benjamin Franklin

    Steps in the stripping of State's Rights/Sovereignty
    1. War of Northern Agression 2. Coersion to ratify the 14th Amendment 3. Ratified 17th Amendment

  6. #6
    Senior Member Array kellyII's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    West Tn, formaly Baghdad
    Posts
    518
    oops, in my post above I meant to say I wouldn't think of him as telling a Lie, I give a man the benefit of the doubt and take him at his word until he proves different.

    If he has been sherrif for 19yrs, then he is doing something right then

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Shelby County TN
    Posts
    11,133
    Good job Monkeytown. You are already a better permit holder than most in your state. You have done your homework!
    ,=====o00o _
    //___l__,\____\,__
    l_--- \___l---[]lllllll[]
    (o)_)-o- (o)_)--o-)_)

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array Rob P.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    In the sticks
    Posts
    631
    So, you wrote a letter complaining about illegal restrictions on your permit. Your sheriff called you and you "talked" about your concerns. However, in the end, the restrictions are still on your permit and the sheriff has no intention of changing his policy of making those restrictions.

    Where, in all of this, is there a "good" outcome?

    The reason the guy has been sheriff for 19 years is because he can sling BS as good as a short order cook slings hash.

  9. #9
    Member Array Monkeytown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    217
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob P. View Post
    So, you wrote a letter complaining about illegal restrictions on your permit. Your sheriff called you and you "talked" about your concerns. However, in the end, the restrictions are still on your permit and the sheriff has no intention of changing his policy of making those restrictions.

    Where, in all of this, is there a "good" outcome?

    The reason the guy has been sheriff for 19 years is because he can sling BS as good as a short order cook slings hash.
    I don't think I ever said it was a "good outcome". What I said is that I had a good conversation with him.

    Here is how I look at it. He acknowledged that OC is in fact legal in AL and that the restrictions on the CPL hold no water and he also stated they were put in place by one of his predecessors. He has no intention of removing them and my take on his train of thought is that it will reduce the number of people OCing b/c they do not know it is legal and therefore won't do it based on the permit restrictions, therefore reducing the number of MWAG calls.

    My thought on the whole thing is that people who get their CPL should KNOW the law and thereby find out for themselves what they can and cannot do regarding OC.

    Would I prefer that the restrictions be removed? Of course, it would remove a lot of confusion. Do I think the guy is slinging BS because he won't? No.

    JMHO,
    MT
    "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." Benjamin Franklin

    Steps in the stripping of State's Rights/Sovereignty
    1. War of Northern Agression 2. Coersion to ratify the 14th Amendment 3. Ratified 17th Amendment

  10. #10
    Member Array CplVargas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    112
    From what I've read, OC in Alabama is legal. However on the Tuscaloosa County Sheriff's website, it states that OC is illegal in Tuscaloosa County.



    Tuscaloosa County Sheriff's Office: Frequently Asked Questions

    May I carry my pistol on my person in open view of the public providing I have obtained a Tuscaloosa County license?

    ANSWER: No. The license only allows you to carry the pistol concealed.

  11. #11
    Member Array Passin' Through's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Dothan, AL
    Posts
    225
    Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't oc legal without a permit since the permit is for concealed carry? Interested to know since I live in Dothan...

  12. #12
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Rocky Mountain High in Colorado
    Posts
    1,706
    May I carry my pistol on my person in open view of the public providing I have obtained a Tuscaloosa County license?

    ANSWER: No. The license only allows you to carry the pistol concealed.
    Pretty common liberal tactic; lie with a half truth. Yes you only need the license for CC, therefore the license is only for CC; they said nothing about unlicensed OC being perfectly legal.

    I do not know the state law there; BUT if you are positive you are on solid ground legally, if it were me: I would inform the sheriff of his violation of state law as the OP did, if that was unsatisfactory then I would OC down the main street of town and dare them to arrest me! I always wanted to retire early!

  13. #13
    Member Array CplVargas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    112
    The FAQ SHOULD say that you are allowed to open carry with or without a permit. I see what you mean about lie with a half truth.

  14. #14
    Member Array Ala Dan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeast, U.S.A.
    Posts
    117
    Based on an old Alabama Attorney Generals
    opinion [Charles Graddick] (opinion #84-00205)
    open carry is legal within the state of Alabama.
    And, I can't find where its been superseded~?

  15. #15
    New Member Array SHTFBugout's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Bama
    Posts
    1

    Reading legal comprehension

    I have had a few dealings with Franklin personal, none where I broke the law, different story. Rob P. is correct about Franklin, he is a politician. If you trust a politician no matter their orientation then you might need a sanity check. Im not saying he doesnt do his job well, but I have personal experiences with him that let me know he is more human and more prone to error and personal vices than you might currently believe. But my comment isnt about him, its about the Elmore CC. Specifically the one in my hand right now issued in 2010, yep out of date.
    just read the stories and decide for yourself if Elmore County is a safe place to raise your kids
    Two arrested in Wetumpka's second teen murder in week - WSFA.com: News Weather and Sports for Montgomery, AL.
    First-grader killed in drive-by shooting - The Wetumpka Herald: News
    Update On Wetumpka Pastor Arrested Case - WSFA.com: News Weather and Sports for Montgomery, AL.

    Time for a legal grammar lesson. "This pistol permit does not permit you to carry a gun openly" is a true statement because the permit has nothing to do with OC, it only has to do with CC. The state law of Alabama permits you to carry a gun openly, the permit is powerless over OC, that is why the statement says. This wording was not written by an idiot, it was written by an Alabama state law lawyer. It makes people think the permit is restricting them from OC on purpose to discourage OC, just by words. Permits dont restrict you from anything. All of those "restrictions" on your permit were there before you got the permit. I am fine with it because I understand it and so does my lawyer :) It is your responsibility to at least understand your local and state laws knowing which one trumps the other. Then you can take it to the legal language level which I highly recommend for your complete understanding.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Good, a Judge Finally had some Guts in Elmore County Alabama
    By JBozeman in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: August 8th, 2009, 01:05 AM
  2. Phil Elmore!!!!!!!!!!!
    By JustinM in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: March 31st, 2006, 06:41 PM

Search tags for this page

alabama gun laws open carry
,

can you open carry in alabama

,

elmore county al concealed weapon permit

,

elmore county al pistol permit

,

elmore county alabama gun permit

,

elmore county alabama pistol permit

,

elmore county concealed carry

,

elmore county concealed weapons permit

,

elmore county pistol permit

,
elmore county sheriff alabama pistol permit
,

how long does it take to receive cpl concealed in alabama

,

pistol permit elmore county alabama

Click on a term to search for related topics.