OC in Virginia

This is a discussion on OC in Virginia within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by jimbofox No sir. If I was stopped I would be forthright and say to them right off the bat (after handing em ...

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Thread: OC in Virginia

  1. #46
    Member Array RunawayGun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbofox View Post
    No sir. If I was stopped I would be forthright and say to them right off the bat (after handing em license/reg) Officer at this time I'd like to inform you that I am openly carrying a firearm on my person. It is holstered securely on my right hip and I'd like to ask you how you'd like to proceed with the stop at this point."
    I was just curious how you'd handle it because a coworker of mine who carries concealed said he wouldn't say anything about it unless the LEO asked him first. He also said he'd refuse to allow the officer to disarm him unless the officer agreed to disarm himself also.

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  3. #47
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    A word to the wise: if you OC in certain parts of Alexandria, such as Old Town, you will most likely have sheeple calling 911 on you. Just don't be surprised if it happens.
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  4. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by cz2075bd View Post
    A word to the wise: if you OC in certain parts of Alexandria, such as Old Town, you will most likely have sheeple calling 911 on you....


    That's why it needs to be done more. A right not exercised is a right lost -- something the Anti-RKBA folk count on. Don't let "inconvenience" strip you of your rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rmac58 View Post
    ....
    Open carry in vehicle as long as it is visible.

    When I picked up my Nagant 1895 it cane with a full flap holster.
    ....

    Another gray area.
    Maybe a tad more dangerous than just "gray" -- IMHO.

    As this could be far more that just an "inconvenience", I wouldn't do it.

    I'd be sure the grip and back end of the slide/hammer or shroud is uncovered.

    As always, YMMV.
    Last edited by DaveH; January 27th, 2010 at 08:26 PM.
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  5. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by RunawayGun View Post
    I was just curious how you'd handle it because a coworker of mine who carries concealed said he wouldn't say anything about it unless the LEO asked him first.

    He also said he'd refuse to allow the officer to disarm him unless the officer agreed to disarm himself also.
    Right! I'd love to be watching what happens at the stop after your friend makes that statement.
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  6. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorlk View Post
    Right! I'd love to be watching what happens at the stop after your friend makes that statement.
    I'd like to see it too. Does the officer have a right to disarm him during a routine traffic stop?

  7. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by cz2075bd View Post
    A word to the wise: if you OC in certain parts of Alexandria, such as Old Town, you will most likely have sheeple calling 911 on you. Just don't be surprised if it happens.
    I could easily see this happening down there. I think those people should be brought up on charges for fraudulent 911 calls or whatever that would be classified as. "Help somebody has a gun securely fastened to his hip!" Oh, and they should fire the dispatcher acting on this type of report. What a waste of resources.

  8. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by RunawayGun View Post
    I'd like to see it too. Does the officer have a right to disarm him during a routine traffic stop?
    Again INAL.

    However, I don't know of any case law on it.

    But that said, here Va LEOs are taught that all traffic stop are "Terry Stops."

    So, a pat-down and temporary disarming (for the officer's safety) for the duration of the "stop" is the LEO's option at a traffic stop w/o need for more "cause" or "articulable suspicion".

    Full search, OTOH, is not OK during non-arrest -- e.g., citation stops.

    FWIIW -- there is case law that having a gun is not in-and-of-itself justification of a "Terry Stop" if you are just walking down the street or the like.
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    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

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  9. #53
    Member Array RunawayGun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    Again INAL.

    However, I don't know of any case law on it.

    But that said, here Va LEOs are taught that all traffic stop are "Terry Stops."

    So, a pat-down and temporary disarming (for the officer's safety) for the duration of the "stop" is the LEO's option at a traffic stop w/o need for more "cause" or "articulable suspicion".

    Full search, OTOH, is not OK during non-arrest -- e.g., citation stops.

    FWIIW -- there is case law that having a gun is not in-and-of-itself justification of a "Terry Stop" if you are just walking down the street or the like.
    Thanks for the info. I've also noticed that LEO's around here often use several squad cars on one civilian vehicle. I don't know if that is standard operating procedure here or if there is really that much going on. It's not uncommon to see several squad cars lined up behind one vehicle.

  10. #54
    Member Array jimbofox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RunawayGun View Post
    Thanks for the info. I've also noticed that LEO's around here often use several squad cars on one civilian vehicle. I don't know if that is standard operating procedure here or if there is really that much going on. It's not uncommon to see several squad cars lined up behind one vehicle.
    Welcome to FFX county, sir :) I lived there for most of my life (in PW county now). On a routine traffic stop one time, I see 2 more cop cars pull up behind the guy stopping me, they all walk up to my vehicle, hands on their heaters, and ask me to step outta the car to which I replied "Is something wrong, officer?" "Sir please step outta the car." is all I got in return. I was then arrested by the FFX county fuzz because there was a warrant out for aggravated assault for a guy that just happened to have the same name as me. What they didn't bother to check was that the guy was 52 years old. I was only 18 at the time. Somehow I really think that was purely shoddy police-work and every single person involved should have been reprimanded. They put me in the back of the incredibly uncomfortable squad car (I dunno how any normal-sized person would fit in one of those. I couldn't even face my feet forward on the floor there was so little room) and then someone finally asked me my age, which was when they informed me of the suspects age ---52. I was then released and offered no apology whatsoever just that "you are free to go". If I had known then what I know now...oh well. I can't speak for all the FFX county cops, but let's just the majority of the involvement I've had with them hasn't exactly been great. One or two were ok.

  11. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbofox View Post
    Welcome to FFX county, sir :) I lived there for most of my life (in PW county now). On a routine traffic stop one time, I see 2 more cop cars pull up behind the guy stopping me, they all walk up to my vehicle, hands on their heaters, and ask me to step outta the car to which I replied "Is something wrong, officer?" "Sir please step outta the car." is all I got in return. I was then arrested by the FFX county fuzz because there was a warrant out for aggravated assault for a guy that just happened to have the same name as me. What they didn't bother to check was that the guy was 52 years old. I was only 18 at the time. Somehow I really think that was purely shoddy police-work and every single person involved should have been reprimanded. They put me in the back of the incredibly uncomfortable squad car (I dunno how any normal-sized person would fit in one of those. I couldn't even face my feet forward on the floor there was so little room) and then someone finally asked me my age, which was when they informed me of the suspects age ---52. I was then released and offered no apology whatsoever just that "you are free to go". If I had known then what I know now...oh well. I can't speak for all the FFX county cops, but let's just the majority of the involvement I've had with them hasn't exactly been great. One or two were ok.
    Yeah I've only had one incident in my 18 months of living here. I was driving to work(a little late) at about 2100 at night. Needless to say I was in the vicinity of 80 m.p.h. maybe more. I pulled over after the lights came on and was instructed by loudspeaker to continue about 30 yards to a wider area, I did so. After we stopped the spotlight came on, couldn't see anything behind me. I rolled down the window and got my wallet ready. Then out of nowhere the LEO put a flashlight in my face and greeted me. He said "do you know how fast you were going?" I said "about 70-75" he said "you were going at least 80 is somebody dying or bleeding out somewhere" I said "no I'm just late for work." He then ran my license, came back and asked me how long I'd been in the military(was in uniform) I told him and he said he was ex military and let me off with a warning. So I honestly can't complain personally.

  12. #56
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    Just so you guys are aware, the whole 360 degree thing was a locality law/ordinance for a few jurisdictions in VA BEFORE the pre-emption law was in effect.. It was on the books in Charlottesville when I lived there in the 90's, but not in Albemarle Co.. I was OC'ing one day and got a MWAG call on me.. The county cop came and cited the Charlottesville law (the 360 degree OC law) and tried to arrest me on that.. When I notified them we were in the county (by about 100 yards or so), that law wasn't in effect.. He was a really nice guy and the stop was very well handled.. I was released with a "have a nice day, sir"..

    I think the law was only on the books in Charlottesville and Richmond, but became a carry myth across the state.. I remember going into several gun stores and having the clerks tell me you couldn't OC because of the 360 law.. That was about the time I stopped listening to gun store clerks on anything..

  13. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by baloo10 View Post
    Just so you guys are aware, the whole 360 degree thing was a locality law/ordinance for a few jurisdictions in VA BEFORE the pre-emption law was in effect.. It was on the books in Charlottesville when I lived there in the 90's, but not in Albemarle Co.. I was OC'ing one day and got a MWAG call on me.. The county cop came and cited the Charlottesville law (the 360 degree OC law) and tried to arrest me on that.. When I notified them we were in the county (by about 100 yards or so), that law wasn't in effect.. He was a really nice guy and the stop was very well handled.. I was released with a "have a nice day, sir"..

    I think the law was only on the books in Charlottesville and Richmond, but became a carry myth across the state.. I remember going into several gun stores and having the clerks tell me you couldn't OC because of the 360 law.. That was about the time I stopped listening to gun store clerks on anything..
    Luckily, state preemption of local laws prevails...they could not legally charge you with that now...
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  14. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoHawk View Post
    VA law is very strict about open carry. TECHNICALLY the way the law is worded, there needs to be 360 degree visibility of your gun or it is concealed.
    Actually, the opposite is true. VA law says NOTHING about open carry. There are no laws that discuss open carry. Laws tell us what we cannot do, so since no law says that you cannot open carry, that makes it legal.

    Also, the 360 degree thing is bunk. Nowhere in the Code of Virginia will you find the term "360 degrees" or any variation thereof. The only thing we have is the defintion of "concealed" - which is "hidden from common observation". We base our understanding of OC on that.

    Runaway - you may want to look into our class, the Introduction to Concealed Carry in Virginia. Sounds like you could benefit from the info presented.

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  15. #59
    Member Array RunawayGun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    Actually, the opposite is true. VA law says NOTHING about open carry. There are no laws that discuss open carry. Laws tell us what we cannot do, so since no law says that you cannot open carry, that makes it legal.

    Also, the 360 degree thing is bunk. Nowhere in the Code of Virginia will you find the term "360 degrees" or any variation thereof. The only thing we have is the defintion of "concealed" - which is "hidden from common observation". We base our understanding of OC on that.

    Runaway - you may want to look into our class, the Introduction to Concealed Carry in Virginia. Sounds like you could benefit from the info presented.

    Jim

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    Thanks Proshooter, I don't have a lot of time now but eventually might look into a class.

  16. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoHawk View Post
    VA law is very strict about open carry. TECHNICALLY the way the law is worded, there needs to be 360 degree visibility of your gun or it is concealed. We all know that can't work unless you have a holster on your head. I would NOT tuck my gun into my waistband. Get a nice paddle holster and carry that way. If it is tucked into your waistband, you WILL be asked for your CHP. You can open carry fully loaded. As far as carrying in your vehicle goes, once again, I would not tuck it into my waistband. Leave it in the holster or pull it out and set it on the passanger seat. However, if you get pulle dover, you should IMMEDIATELY tell the LEO where your weapon is.
    Agree with Pro-shooter,
    There is a lot of false information in this post.

    "Technically" there is no law about open carry in the commonwealth of Virginia.

    I'm not sure where you heard about the 360 degree law but that again 100% not true. Tucking a gun by use of a IWB holster is perfectly acceptable here in VA for open carry. It just cannot be hidden from common observation to be considered OC. I have a carried in a Milit Sparks VM-2 this way many times open, run into many cops, and not once have I been asked to produce a CHP.

    Notifying an officer that you are armed in a traffic stop here in the Commonwealth maybe recommend, but it is not required.
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