Do any African Amercians open carry? - Page 4

Do any African Amercians open carry?

This is a discussion on Do any African Amercians open carry? within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by rolyat63 SIXTO - I've seen you and/or other LEOs mention male driving the female registered vehicle as a tickler to get your ...

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Thread: Do any African Amercians open carry?

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by rolyat63 View Post
    SIXTO - I've seen you and/or other LEOs mention male driving the female registered vehicle as a tickler to get your SA up. I drove a car for two years that was in my wifes name. She bought it while I was in Afghanistan so it was in her name. I say this realizng you guys got a job to do and there are a lot of bad people and a good portion of them can't buy: guns, cars, homes etc... That being said it is like many on here say we should not be harassed for doing something legal such as OC. Likewise, driving a car that is not registered to you should not be a reason when juxtaposed with another legal activity such as having a legal CCW and driving in a "bad" part of town and then god forbid you are black. Statistically those stops are gonna get some bad guys but at what cost?

    What percentage of hits in the dragnet is accetpable for infringing ones peaceable journey to investigate if it's a BG? It's really a rhetorical question, I don't mean to sound flip. It's a conumdrum because I see the reasons for it but dislike that a US citizen with all of the protections of the Constitution can get put in the back seat until he "proves" he's not breaking the law.
    If its a wife, it doesn't raise any suspicions at all. It's fairly easy to tell if that's the case too. Most of the time, criminal's will register with their girlfriend or grandmothers names, and that is a lot more obvious.
    And also, that is not PC or RS for a stop, its only a piece pf what could be a large puzzle.
    "Just blame Sixto"


  2. #47
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    I'm pretty sure Jang was saying just the opposite. Its not that everything is the same, but that a threat or in this case, a drug dealer, can come in any form. The proverbial "Wolf in sheep's clothing" if you will.
    I acknowledge the fact that looks can be deceiving, but on the other hand If it looks like a duck.....

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    I acknowledge the fact that looks can be deceiving, but on the other hand If it looks like a duck.....
    I'm with ya there.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  4. #49
    Senior Member Array dsee11789's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    I acknowledge the fact that looks can be deceiving, but on the other hand If it looks like a duck.....
    Yep... Unfortunately a few bad apples spoil the bunch.
    Exodus 22:2 "If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed"

  5. #50
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    interesting topic
    I, like Sixto, don't have any friends that are black AND have a CHL. I haven't spoke with anyone that has been in situations as some have mentioned here and we just don't see that stuff with our department.

    I have to say that I was raised to, and I still do, judge a person based on their attitude, personality, work ethic, accomplishments, and how they treat others; NOT on their skin color, on what side of town they live, what car they drive, how they dress, or how much money they make.
    Now that I'm a cop.....none of that has changed. HOWEVER....when I see someone in an area that has higher crime rates than other parts of town, driving a car that doesn't fit the upper income neighborhood its rolling through at 2am.....then I take notice and begin to consider it as a possible suspect vehicle, but they still have to commit a traffic violation or do something else that raises my suspicions. And it doesn't matter what color their skin might be.
    Same for when I'm around the night clubs where we've had numerous crimes, shootings, etc......I know any one of these people could have a gun and I'm in a high crime area....doesn't matter what their skin color might be. The dress isn't a factor in this situation because most of them are dressed the same....they all could have a weapon.

    I've never encountered a black or hispanic person with a CHL....and if I did it wouldn't make any difference to me. I have however encountered white, black, hispanic, and asian people with guns w/o a CHL and in situations that we were investigating....they did get their serial numbers checked due to the situation we were in...NOT just because they had a gun.
    LEO/CHL
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    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

  6. #51
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    I'm pretty sure Jang was saying just the opposite. Its not that everything is the same, but that a threat or in this case, a drug dealer, can come in any form. The proverbial "Wolf in sheep's clothing" if you will.
    Bingo.

    Bubba every one of us on this board is 'suspect'.
    Heck we all run around with guns and ammo on our peron and as kept among our homes.
    Everybody I run into in life and/or know is 'suspect'.

    I trust three persons and they go by the street names of; 'Me', 'Myself' and 'I'.
    Everybody else is to varying degrees suspect. Period.
    And I only trust the above three because they are proven and have excellent AAA rating credit.

    Two days ago I was having this very conversation with my wife as related to an episode of Oprah this week where they interviewed a group of male child molesters.

    Oprah's Conversation with Child Molesters
    The Oprah Winfrey Show | February 08, 2010

    Oprah's Conversation with Child Molesters - Oprah.com
    First thing out of my mouth was; "Why does she have only white males, and they are all of a certain physical appearance?!"

    It buys into the 'dirty old man' stereotype which is _exactly_ what Oprah at one point wound up referring to one of them as in so many words.
    I went on to say that not just white males and/or men of average look molest, but that men of good looks and women of all types and age do too. Where are they as representation on this show?!
    Further I'd stated to her that people watching this will think and buy into the dirty older white guy stereotype and not think to pay attention to....EVERYONE ELSE!

    At the end of the shows episode Oprah then mentioned they were going to bring on females next week and visit some place called 'Pedophile Island', a supposed detention center for the nations worst cases.
    My wife was at first AH HAAA SEE!!!....But then seconds later as the item continues guess who they show to be featured next week; Average and less type looking white females of a certain age mid to late 40s out to grandma age. Same.

    My wife then commented that she has suspicion for one person among her extended family.
    I responded to her in so many words stating that I consider _everyone_ to be suspect as it goes and comes to my kids and their welfare.

    So no Bubba I don't profile.
    Nor am I living in some pollyanna world of ignorance, and one would not need to be so as to not depend on profiling or not profile at all.

    Why?

    Because as based on my own life experience I pretty much have learned better as related to interacting with a wide and varied variety of people. But then due to who and how I am by personality I am out there, as IRL, doing a wide variety of things and thus crossing over a wide variety of bridges to worlds toward people foreign to me.
    That's me and my life.

    Just because I run into a guy on the street wearing a hoodie or having his neck and face tatted up or riding a HD with tats while wearing a skullcap or at my bank wearing a suit and dark glasses does not on it's own with no other supporting evidence of mentality and/or intent specifically activate my thought of OMG "Duck!".

    The world is far too wide and varied to buy that.
    Oh, and I would bet money that at least one person who is an active member of this board is a person who is or has in the past molested a child...And not been caught,yet. At least one.
    Why? Because of the odds AND that this place is a big pool of water.

    Walk like a duck, talk like a duck...etc works best among small ponds and as for duck hunters who are fixated, wanting to see ducks.
    When in the real world guess what, swans and geese are existant. They are ducks too!

    Anatidae is the biological family that includes ducks, geese and swans. The family has a cosmopolitan distribution, occurring on all the world's continents except Antarctica and on most of the world's islands and island groups. These are birds that are adapted through evolution for swimming, floating on the water surface, and in some cases diving in at least shallow water...The family contains around 146 species in 40 genera.

    Source - Anatidae - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Anyone who has taken a 'Waterfowl Identification' course, which I in my personal time instruct via USFWS, would have been taught and know the above item of fact.
    Not even 'ducks' look or act like a duck, always as a rule.

    BTW talk about ducks and stereotypes imagine walking into a course to find me standing there as an instructor among a crew of five wildlife biologists. All of us wearing same uniform and sporting instructor IDs.
    They all being white males aged 50 to 67, and everyone of them born & raised rural having been duck hunting since low single digits.
    On the other hand me being a Negro male age 40 but by outward appearance most figure me to be a college student, including college students who do and will card me, and I was born & raised urban in of all places DC where there is no duck hunting what so ever.

    Which one is the duck?
    We all are. They quack...And I honk.
    And if I didn't know what I was talking about in regard to subject matter I wouldn't be there muchless at the lecturn welcoming the students to class.

    My point?
    Profiling only works as well as you make it work as within a subset...Such as among a small pond.
    Widen your group and view though such as visit a great lake or ocean, and you'll see a greater amount of opportunity to be wrong.
    Which is another item we teach in the duck hunting class as related to targeting specific game among flyways.
    Go to where you know only lawful bird tend to flock and then well you reduce your chance for making an erroneous bird identification as on the wing...To which can come steep personal accountability as related to mistaken game.



    - Anatidae

    "Duck, duck, goose" - What is; A game that children play

    P.S. - For those of you out there who have no friends who are minority (not just negro aka 'black'), and I don't mean coworkers you work with and thus have no choice but to interrelate with, then this being the year 2010 you might take it upon yourself as a personal challenge and opportunity to broaden your horizons by seeking out and befriending or possibly even mentoring a minority. See what that person might be like and how their own view of the world we all share might be different _and_ same as how you experience and see things. No different than how women have a view and experience different than that of males. Children different than teens than that of adults than that of our elders and seniors.
    You may not like what you see, hear and experience...singularly. You might on the other hand enjoy it, singularly. That's life and living. Roll a dice and you'll get a number. Roll it again and odds are very good you'll get a different number. And then some times you get snake eyes...But not always!
    Asa matter of fct you can though count myself and Rollo as being two Negro 'friends' as we are both right here communicating with you sharing a view. It's not all views. Just one view as from two guys who have nothing to lose but time and looking for nothing to gain but maybe a friend or two.
    Last edited by Janq; February 12th, 2010 at 12:46 PM. Reason: Corrected two typo errors. Also added inline informational links toward migratory bird flyways as well as .GOV laws & regs.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  7. #52
    Member Array Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddyfish View Post
    So, do any of our African- American friends open carry?
    There was the guy in Arizona...

    Kevin Jensen
    Utah State Researcher,
    www.opencarry.org

  8. #53
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    Well then, I think that answers the question. That's clearly a black dude open carrying. He looks American too. And nobody looks afraid.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  9. #54
    Senior Member Array Andy W.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Walk like a duck, talk like a duck...etc works best among small ponds and as for duck hunters who are fixated, wanting to see ducks.
    When in the real world guess what, swans and geese are existant. They are ducks too!
    Good analogy.
    America: Your government is not ignoring you, it's insulting you.

    The Bill of Rights: Void where prohibited by law.

  10. #55
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    This thread has made for some eye-opening reading. Thanks to all who have participated.

    Great topic, and great responses. Too bad we can't this type of candid and well-reasoned dialogue at a national level.

    BTW, my daughter once dated an African-American. His name was Klaus van der Wald and his family was from South Africa and now lives in America. The family heritage is Dutch, but they had family in Africa for over 400 years. That's longer than most American families can claim on US soil.

    For whatever reason, however, he was classified as "white" in the government record books. When he told the local public school officials he was an African Amercian, they scoffed. He showed them the records. He was more African-American than anyone else there, but they would not let him use the appellation. Funny, that.

    I have a colleague who is considered by appearances to be black. When he is called an African American, he points out his mother is white and his father is from the West Indies. Nothing African about him.

  11. #56
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    There are truly some greatr folks here! I have NEVER seen one of these threads stay at a level to where a person could really learn somthing from it. Thank you to many here!

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubfarm1 View Post
    There are truly some greatr folks here! I have NEVER seen one of these threads stay at a level to where a person could really learn somthing from it. Thank you to many here!
    very true, lets hope it continues
    LEO/CHL
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    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

  13. #58
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    MadMac,

    That is a totally different subject but frankly I have _never_ liked that term 'African-American'.

    It quite simply makes little to no sense as a descriptor for most Negro Americans considering the vast majority of us have no clue what so ever from where our ancestors may have been brought to the Americas and/or by what route.

    Negros were among the West Indies, Africa, as well as Europe too with the Moorish people. Further there is very little record keeping toward origination for the majority of us.
    Never mind that _real_ modern Africans as from the continent who emigrate here to the US and birth children consider the term to be uniquely theres as akin to that of your example, regardless of skin tone/melanin count.

    I found myself in a very uncomfortable situation this past Sunday as my kids and I were in the car when on the radio a man announced that February is African- American history month.
    My daughter aged 7 immediately remarked that's "weird".

    Background: I am negro while my wife is Jewish (maternal) with Franco-American & Canadian roots (paternal).
    Both my kids are clearly negroid in complexion and facial structure but their skin tone is what in my day we negro referred to as 'red bone' (my daughter) and 'high yellow' (my son).
    Both my dad and my grandmother were this way they as from Native American blood input on their side. They both often mistaken for being 'white' or asian (my grandmother was for 3 wks. street snatched and placed in an internment camp after Pearl Harbor...Until she could convince here captors that she was negro!) as by others comments to me when I was a child. Times were very different then than now.

    So back to my kids I find myself trying to explain to them why there is such a month as relative to American history.
    My daughter then replys that I'm "black" and that she and her brother are "brown" thinking same as a box of crayons. She then asked what month os for mommy (white).
    I did not laugh or giggle because she was serious and this was a serious conversation.
    The thing is at my house we almost never have discussion of race and about people being of different races. I do this on purpose and my wife she grew up having nothing but exposure to caucasians living in a town and region that was 99% 'white'.
    Now today my kids see me interact with and have associations with a wide range of people by age, race, gender, nationality and 'color'. My wife very much less so much while my kids their friends look like a representation of a UN council.

    To my mind this is important for us as adults as toward improving our children, their world and making things better as to be progressive rather than isolationist and segregationist regression. With that I do not tell my kids they are a color, 'black' nor do I refer to the as being the IMHO largely bogus "African-American".
    Instead they are to me and my eyes just people.
    It's weird to me to even think to refer to them as being anything but negroid, a classification that is made as based on overall facial physical attributes rather than expressly and singularly skin tone.

    More reading on same;
    Craniofacial anthropometry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Negroid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Capoid race - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Australoid race - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Caucasian race - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Mongoloid race - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    - Janq

    P.S. - As back on topic though I'd received an invitation by mail this week from the Springfield Armory as toward a presentation tomorrow titled; 'The Significance of the Armory for African-Americans'.
    Sat. Feb 13 @ 1:30P at the facility in Springfield, MA. I will very likely be there and hope to bring my daughter too.
    Locals seeking more info on the event can contact the the Armory directly at either http://www.nps.gov/spar or Joannem_Gangi@NPS.gov.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  14. #59
    Senior Member Array dsee11789's Avatar
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    So what would you prefer that we call you? I understand just "a person" would be best but what about as a descriptor?

    I always thought negroe was borderline offensive.
    AA is the politically correct term.
    I never liked black or white either.

    So what is best?
    Exodus 22:2 "If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed"

  15. #60
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Me?
    Negro.

    It's accurate in every way.
    But see that's me. Others less so much.

    'Black' is okay as is A-A as I know within _context_ what the person is meaning to say and denote.
    Same as when others might say white or Jewish or Franco-American or for that matter Irish...Even as in cases where the person in the immediate has never ever stepped foot on to Ireland but only grew up as among persons of that specific group or even origination.

    We as adult persons know what we're saying and folk who try to make as though otherwise generally to my own experience regardless of nationality/genus/color typically are doing so to be coy and/or make some manner of point...Mot often hollow and inconsequential.

    In the case of the above with MadMac clearly as by _context_ the record keeping is toward classification as related to monitoring of social bounds.
    Whether or not the person/student actually came from Africa is not the point of intent. Which it sounds like the person in his example pressed as though he were born yesterday and wholly ignorant of American and world history, including that of his own familys as among the continent of Africa for that matter.

    For simplicity sake just call me 'Janq' and think of me as being a negro with chocolaty skin tone...Who carries a 1911. :p

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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