Allowed to OC a loaded weapon w no license?

Allowed to OC a loaded weapon w no license?

This is a discussion on Allowed to OC a loaded weapon w no license? within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So, I am in Michigan, and I have applied and am waiting for my Concealed Pistol License. In the meantime, I have been reading up ...

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Thread: Allowed to OC a loaded weapon w no license?

  1. #1
    Member Array andyw328's Avatar
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    Allowed to OC a loaded weapon w no license?

    So, I am in Michigan, and I have applied and am waiting for my Concealed Pistol License. In the meantime, I have been reading up on open carry, and there is one thing I am still unclear of - having no license other than the license to own my firearm, am I allowed, legally, to carry a loaded weapon openly, and use in self-defense if it were truly (in the legal sense) justified? Sorry if this is not the right forum... Seemed to be. Any help is appreciated.


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    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    You are in the right place, there are members here from all over and we help each other out many times.

    Handgunlaw.us
    indicates it is illegal to carry any loaded firearm in any vehicle in Michigan without a valid Permit/License.

    Obviously you would need to verify the laws yourself, but as it appears now, you'll have to wait.
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    Member Array andyw328's Avatar
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    Well, I knew that the car would be a tricky situation. So, to comply with the law, it seems I would have to unload the gun, put it in the trunk and the loaded mag in the glovebox, and then reholster when I got where I was going?? Seems like sort of a weird grey area. The other thing I was thinking, perhaps a thought better suited to it's own thread, is that Open Carry is sort of like... nonstop brandishing, in the sense that people can always see you are carrying.

    For instance, if I am legally CCW, and someone approaches me in a threatening manner, I am brandishing if I open my jacket and show them my firearm. But, if I am simply not wearing the jacket, and the firearm is visible in the first place, it seems like I am "showing them" my firearm from the get-go, and it is sort of the same deterrent... only legal? This seems like weird/tricky legal implications... no?

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    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    Seems it's a traditional OC state, but with an odd vehicle law. Check here.

    OpenCarry.org - State Information For Michigan

    OCDO Michigan forum here.

    Michigan - Stories From The States - OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum

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    Ex Member Array jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyw328 View Post
    Well, I knew that the car would be a tricky situation. So, to comply with the law, it seems I would have to unload the gun, put it in the trunk and the loaded mag in the glovebox, and then reholster when I got where I was going?? Seems like sort of a weird grey area. The other thing I was thinking, perhaps a thought better suited to it's own thread, is that Open Carry is sort of like... nonstop brandishing, in the sense that people can always see you are carrying.

    For instance, if I am legally CCW, and someone approaches me in a threatening manner, I am brandishing if I open my jacket and show them my firearm. But, if I am simply not wearing the jacket, and the firearm is visible in the first place, it seems like I am "showing them" my firearm from the get-go, and it is sort of the same deterrent... only legal? This seems like weird/tricky legal implications... no?
    just to be clear, open carry is not brandishing. brandishing is more like, you flash your concealed gun at someone to intimidate them, or you point it at someone. it's a sort of threatening behavior, which has nothing to do with how you carry a gun.

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    Member Array wllmandre's Avatar
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    As far as I'm concerned, OPEN CARRY means just that. Wearing a side arm on your hip visible for all to see is your 2nd ammendment right. Brandishing a firearm is showing it, waving it, or pointing it in a threatening manner. Having a side arm holstered on your hip is not threatening to anybody. They may not like seeing it, but 9 times out of 10, people will think you have a reason for carrying it open, ie LEO or FBI, If you make it a big deal so will others. Some people will feel safer knowing you are around. "If it walks/looks like a duck.........etc." If you look the part, people will leave you alone. If more people carried open, criminals would think twice before screwing with people.
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    Member Array Jblack44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason View Post
    Seems it's a traditional OC state, but with an odd vehicle law. Check here.

    OpenCarry.org - State Information For Michigan

    OCDO Michigan forum here.

    Michigan - Stories From The States - OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum
    Please go here! Also Michigan Open Carry, Inc. | Nothing to hide! for more information.

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    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    more/better info avail elsewhere, but you can open carry in MI...there is a good chance in a big city like flint you'll get harassed by LE. If you get in a vehicle, the weapon is considered concealed regarless of how your carry it.

    Attorney general granholm issued a official opinion that bransihing was not defined by statute, and thus resorted to the dictionary. Brandishing is to wave about or flourish menacingly...her opinion stated that a holstered firearm was not being brandished...the opinion was directed at reserve police officers, but the definition is the definition and people have been given grief for open carry, but to my knowledge have not been convicted of whatever charges are attempted in that regard. I used to frequent opencarry.org...lots more infor there.
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    Member Array andyw328's Avatar
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    "MSP opinion: Your analysis is correct. Non-CPL pistol free zones do not apply to CPL holders. The CPL
    pistol free zones only apply to CPL holders carrying a concealed pistol. Therefore, a CPL holder may openly
    carry a pistol in Michigan's pistol free zones.

    Sincerely,

    Sgt. Thomas Deasy, Michigan State Police
    Executive Resource Section, 714 S. Harrison Rd.
    East Lansing, MI 48823
    (517) 336-6441"

    I almost find this hard to believe... So, pistol-free zones, as it were, only apply to concealed pistols??? I can attend my classes at UM Flint while openly carrying?? My head is spinning! One thing I consider often is how poorly thought out the idea of pistol-free zones are, being that only the police and those about to commit gun crimes will be armed. Especially in the wake of all the higher-learning institution shootings, I found myself somewhat betrayed at the thought of not being allowed to CCW at school. Now, to find an opinion from the State Police saying that I can openly carry... I'm just sorta confused.

    If they will allow the guns there (but only in the open), and a person with a CPL was held to much more rigorous standards than someone with a permit to own a gun, AND open firearms cause controversy... What is the point of pistol-free zones?

    *edit Or did I misread, and only a CPL holder may carry open in a pistol-free zone?

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    the loophole is that a CPL holder can open carry is a pistolfree zone. As far as I know, there have been no test cases. Also keep in mind, while you may get away with it legally, your school would likely expel you.
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  11. #11
    Member Array andyw328's Avatar
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    Maybe I could get a comfy legal settlement :P But nah, I probably wouldn't even try it. The kids at UM are sorta stuck up besides, and I imagine I would be arrested within a half hour of being seen OC.

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    Member Array mel5051's Avatar
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    University of Michigan is a NO CARRY zone!!!
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  13. #13
    Member Array andyw328's Avatar
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    Exactly, what we were discussing is the loophole by which a CPL holder can open carry in a no carry zone... Weird, isn't it??

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    UM isn't a no carry zone, Classrooms and Dormitories are off limits. CPL holders can legally wander the rest of the campus while carrying concealed. Internal policies offer punishment for those under their control (Employees and students). I work for a different University but UM has no power over me. My employer could fire me, but there could be no legal charges.
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  15. #15
    Member Array andyw328's Avatar
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    Interesting you point out that it's specifically classrooms and dormitories. So I could be carrying if I were visiting a professor in their office I wonder? And the loophole whereby a CPL holder can open carry in a pistol-free zone has still got my mind a bit fried.

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