WI State Trooper harasses law-abiding Open-Carrier. Demonstration this Sunday - Page 7

WI State Trooper harasses law-abiding Open-Carrier. Demonstration this Sunday

This is a discussion on WI State Trooper harasses law-abiding Open-Carrier. Demonstration this Sunday within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by maddyfish . Really the cop should have minded his own buisness. If the owner asks the cop to make the guy leave, ...

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  1. #91
    Member Array steyrsdad's Avatar
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    WHAT

    Quote Originally Posted by maddyfish View Post
    . Really the cop should have minded his own buisness. If the owner asks the cop to make the guy leave, then fine, but otherwise this was just a cop looking for trouble.

    I think it is wrong for the cop to go asking if he can throw an OCer out.
    Guns dont kill people. people kill people
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  2. #92
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    Kudos to the LEO, just protecting as serving. What if camcorder guy was a nut.
    The officer was just doing his job.
    IMO he wasnt rude, actually just the opposite.
    This appears to be just a set up to cause an issue. I dont take may camcorder with me everywhere?
    Appears to be a little fishy.

  3. #93
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    WHAT

    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    True enough except for one detail; this is what the officer did. He walked in, asked the owner if they allowed guns in their business. The answer was no. So, he then upheld the business owners right to not allow guns in their establishment. There was no arrest and no detainment. The OC'r was simply advised of the businesses wishes, and he agreed to comply with WI law. Even though there is clear RS, None was actually needed for this interaction. The end.
    what?
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  4. #94
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    It says what it says, as does stacks of case law and as does the definition of reasonable suspicion, probable cause etc, etc. This was not a "Terry stop", its not even close to one.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  5. #95
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    I agree with the LEO. He was just acting on suspicion although it turned out to be nothing. Even though its legal to OC in WI it doesn't mean you won't ever be stopped by PD. It was as simple as the LEO sees the guy arm up and walk in the restaurant. LEO walks in and checks to see if they allow guns in there. He got a "no". "Joseph" was not arrested, detained or even disarmed. He was asked to leave and he agreed and complied. Help me out here...Which of Joseph's rights where violated?
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  6. #96
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    USMC3169
    I agree with you on the totality of circumstances, what I was arguing with Sixto about was his statement "Cop see's a man with a gun (which is probably very out of the ordinary in that area) and investigates. Sorry you don't like it, but that is what cops are supposed to do." That is deffinatly not RAS, does not warrent a Terry Stop and is not what cops are supposed to do.

    I will stand by my statement that if a FOIA request does not come up with a call/complaint etc the Officer acted outside of the law. If that is the case the Officer at a minimum needs educated/counseled. I would most likely insist on an apologie and sue if it did not happen.

    Go back and watch the video again. There is an employee of the restaurant preceding the officer in the direction of the guy with the gun. The employee is looking straight at the guy sitting at the table, and the officer is coming behind the employee. It is quite possible that one of the employees informed the cop when he came in that there was a guy sitting over there with a gun. Then proceeded to point him out with the head jesture from the guy in the red ball cap. There doesn't have to be a 911 call in order for someone at the restaurant to make a LEO aware of something that is taking place.

    It is quite possible that once the officer was made aware of the guy with the gun, he then asked the staff whether they allowed guns in their establishment. The answer was clearly "no" as heard on the video. After that, the officer was just doing his job.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  7. #97
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    WI is a State that still has not enacted a concealed carry law (failed several times, and only by one vote), and the open carry law is open to interpretation as it is a recently new concept in WI.

    If the OCer was true about promoting the OC agenda, they would be educating the general public and changing the law. WI laws do not address the issues of posting if weapons are allowed, etc.

    The LE did nothing wrong except for a consensual encounter with a business owner and an OCer within a restaurant, that was put onto Utube with the agenda of the OCer. Neither right nor wrong.

    The true education needs to be in the legislation and changes need to occur within the law. Otherwise, WI will continue to be a State.

    As for the Waukesha Co. Sherriff follow up on impersonating an officer, those calls need to be followed up on to protect the public from true predators. If they (LE) acted professionally in their contact what is the issue. I do not see that on Utube! Just curious why not.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuffsnstuff View Post


    As for the Waukesha Co. Sherriff follow up on impersonating an officer, those calls need to be followed up on to protect the public from true predators. If they (LE) acted professionally in their contact what is the issue. I do not see that on Utube! Just curious why not.
    I would have liked to see that on video as well. When they knocked on the door, he should have been able to find his camcorder before he opened it.
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  9. #99
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by logan View Post
    I would have liked to see that on video as well. When they knocked on the door, he should have been able to find his camcorder before he opened it.
    It is only good for restaurant usage. I don't think those things work at home.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  10. #100
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    If someone called or complained directly to the officer then the officer did the correct thing. If the Officer went in and just asked a restaurant employee what the rules were he over stepped his boundrys. Followed by reporting the individule as possably impersonating an LEO is just an attempt to intimidate the OCer and is a good example of out of control law enforcement. Every LEOs job is to enforce the law not their opinion, our job is to make sure the LEOs follow the law, we the people are the police force for the LEOs. Like it or not there is a small percentage of LEOs that should not be LEOs. An LEO does not assume you are a good guy when he meets you on the street neither should we assume that every LEO we meet is an honest LEO until proven differently in both cases.

  11. #101
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    An LEO does not assume you are a good guy when he meets you on the street neither should we assume that every LEO we meet is an honest LEO until proven differently in both cases.
    Why wouldn't they assume your a good guy? If they simply meet you on the street, or going in or out of a store, or at the local whererever, and your minding your own business and doing nothing to draw attention to yourself, why wouldn't they think your a good guy? Now if they are pulling you over, or responding to a call, that is an entirely different thing.

    On the other hand, I have no reason to think a LEO is not a good guy, or anyone else for that matter, until you do something that makes me think otherwise. What that is depends greatly on the situation and surroundings.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    If someone called or complained directly to the officer then the officer did the correct thing. If the Officer went in and just asked a restaurant employee what the rules were he over stepped his boundrys.
    This argument doesn't make sense.

    I think we all agree that a firearm is an inanimate object, right? A harmless tool and only becomes dangerous when the user uses it in such a manner that is either unsafe or with intentions to inflict harm?

    The logic you are using Orphan makes no sense in the reality of the situation. Here examples why;

    Lets replace the gun in this scenario with something audience here is not so passionate about.

    Lets say our OC'er enters the Chinese joint with a baseball bat. Do you still feel the officer should do nothing? Its not illegal to enter a restaurant with a baseball bat after all. Should the officer "mind his own business"?

    How about a brick?
    A pipe?
    A ski mask?
    A tire iron?
    A 2x4?
    A dog?
    How about a long gun? You pick the type.

    How about this; lets say out OC'er doesn't give a crap about guns, but he really likes animals. He thinks that animals have every right to go where people can. So he goes on into the local Super Happy Number 1 Dragon Kitchen for a hearty meal of sweet and sour chicken and sits down at a table with his pack of dogs. Its not illegal to dine with dogs, is it? Should the officer say nothing? Maybe the owner is fine with it, maybe he is not. Maybe the owner loves dogs too... or maybe the owner is afraid the presence of these dogs is going to hurt his business. Shouldn't the officer inquire?

    Or lets replace a Chinese restaurant with a place of worship. Lets make it a synagogue. And lets say our "victim" is out side milling around in the parking lot with a surplus nazi uniform on. Should the officer question that? According to you, no. No law has been broken. Or has it? There is only one way to find out.

    Or lets say our OC'er is walking down the street with a pile of guns in a wheel barrel. The officer should not investigate that?


    Do you see my point yet?
    "Just blame Sixto"

  13. #103
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    I would like more information on the supposed vist to the guys house and questions about his impersonating an officer.

    Maybe it is me, but after spending some time looking through what the guy has posted on his website, I can imagine how a LEO might come to that conclusion. Yea, I had a slow day the other day and the pictures he has up there intrigued me, along with pictures of stuff besides his car.

    No his car doesn't look like a cop car, but I will say that some of the detectives around here drive Impalas, and Malibu's along with other vehicles that definately don't fit in the "cop car" catagory.

    I didn't have to make great jump in my imagination to see this guy acting like Starsky and Hutch or whatever, with his multiple scanners, video camera hidden in his grill, cb radio with hand unit mounted to his dash, gps and video screens all up front, and the radar decector or whatever he has mounted to the windshield below the mirror. I can just imagine him sitting someplace with his windows rolled down and someone overhearing the police or emergency chatter on the radio, seeing all the antenas, and later seeing him with a gun on his side and thinking that he might be a cop. Maybe the restaurant saw his gun and gave him the friendly LEO discount a time or two, an maybe he took the discount. I don't know.

    Like I said, I really would like to know more factual information about the visit to his home.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    True enough except for one detail; this is what the officer did. He walked in, asked the owner if they allowed guns in their business. The answer was no. So, he then upheld the business owners right to not allow guns in their establishment. There was no arrest and no detainment. There was no pat down. There was no Terry stop. The OC'r was simply advised of the businesses wishes, and he agreed to comply with WI law. Even though there is clear RS, None was actually needed for this interaction. The end.
    SOOOO you do not consider making a FALSE report to the local sheriff's department for impersonating a LEO for what appears to be sole purpose of harassing the individual going outside his official duties???????????????????????? If he truly thought the individual was impersonating an officer WHY did he not do anything about it himself at the time?????????????????????? He had jurisdiction but he chose to involve another agency to do his dirty work.

    I generally agree with you on most issues but this time I think you have your BLUE BLINDERS on.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    SOOOO you do not consider making a FALSE report to the local sheriff's department for impersonating a LEO for what appears to be sole purpose of harassing the individual going outside his official duties???????????????????????? If he truly thought the individual was impersonating an officer WHY did he not do anything about it himself at the time?????????????????????? He had jurisdiction but he chose to involve another agency to do his dirty work.

    I generally agree with you on most issues but this time I think you have your BLUE BLINDERS on.
    I'm willing to bet there is no "report" of anything. I will bet my next paycheck that the trooper made the sheriff's office aware of what happened for a few reasons.

    First, the probable back lash like this thread, and a law enforcement action took place in their jurisdiction. It is a common thing to do among agencies. We share information, especially if we are playing in somebody else's backyard.

    Second, for the possibility that this guy is an problem or is about to become one. Every LEO will tell you that every town has at least one guy with the scanners etc that loves to follow the police and or fire department around. Most are harmless (but annoying) enthusiasts, but some are the types that do have "issues" that will begin to create problems (such as setting fires, or breaking windows to set off alarms) on their own in order to create a response from emergency personnel. This is also the type that eventually starts making bogus traffic stops that have been posted about numerous times on this forum. Most of the time, avoiding them getting to that point requires a simple talking to early on.
    This guys car and website fit that mold perfectly. Like I said before, he may be harmless or he might be a nut in waiting. There is only one way to find out.

    If you call speaking from personal experience and actually having professional knowledge having "blue blinders" on, you must have your own 'blinders' on.

    Why don't you tell me where I'm wrong in the posted you quoted.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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