Educating Wait Staff in a Virginia Restaurant

In AZ, we've only been able to carry into restaurants that serve alcohol since September of '09, and only with a valid CCW permit, and only concealed, and only if we don't drink, and only if the establishment doesn't post against us -- which is, I am sad to say, quite common, because I haven't yet gone to a restaurant that does not have the official gunbusters sign posted at the entrance.

Our local fishwrap purveyors did an excellent job of scaring people by refusing to state in plain language that the law only applied with the above-mentioned restrictions, so everybody got it in their heads that "the Wild West is here again" so they all posted signs the day the law took effect.

New Mexico's new restaurant carry bill is less stupid than ours because you actually are not prohibited from drinking, but it only applies to restaurants (60% of income derived from food) that only serve beer and wine, -- whereas a good 65-70% of the liquor licenses in the state apply to hard liquor as well, so people carrying will still be banned in too many places. The same amount of 'WAAAAH!' over guns and alcohol is going on there though.

Can't carry at all in establishments that serve alcohol down here in NC. I'd be more than happy to OC. Mostly go to Cracker Barrel anyway.

There is a Virginia Law that indicates it is a misdemeanor to carry a firearm while under the influence of alcohol. It does not define "under the influence of alcohol" other than to say that conviction of alcohol related crimes (DUI, Public Drunkeness, etc.) serve as prima facia evidence relative to this law. Outside of one of those offenses, it would be up to the descretion of a particular LEO/DA/Judge to interpret this law as meaning ANY alcohol. Since it does not specify that it applies ONLY to one of those offenses nor does it define under the influence, I would be hesitant to test the waters on that one. If you are convicted of an alcohol related offense of any kind (whether you are carrying at the time or not), you are subject to losing your CCP and cannot re-apply for 5 years. I've got a friend dealing with these issues currently and this was what he was told by his lawyer. IANAL, but he has paid this very reputable lawyer in this area many thousands of dollars to deal with his situation. It's made me re-think my "I'll have one with my meal when we eat out" position. 5 years is a long time. I may be wrong...please let me know if I am.

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Originally Posted by chiefjason

Can't carry at all in establishments that serve alcohol down here in NC. I'd be more than happy to OC. Mostly go to Cracker Barrel anyway.

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I find myself eating at more and more places that don't serve alcohol just so there isn't any question about it. Keeps things simpler in a lot of regards. When was the last time you heard a story on the news about someone getting rowdy in a Cracker Barrel?

Heh. The question is why did you go to a restaurant on Sabbath?

To the OP. You sound well versed on the current and possible future laws in Va.


I'm curious, what would you have done had the server refused to serve you?

I'm not judging. Just would like to know how you would have handled it?

Varob;
If the waiter had refused, I would have asked to speak to the manager; I've been served there plenty of times while OCing. If the manager refused to serve me, then I wouldn't be going back there in the future.

Agave;
We go out for dinner after services every Shabbat. Why? Because we're hungry primarily but also because we're all friends and it helps to separate the peace and restfulness of Shabbat from the crazy rush of the work week.

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Originally Posted by jofrdo

...a discussion of your state's laws regarding carrying in restaurants...

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Colorado has few statutory no-carry zones. Bars and alcohol-serving restaurants are not on the list, so we may carry into any restaurant. Of course it is illegal to carry while inebriated here.

I never enter bars and never drink over-priced alcohol in a restaurant anyway; I find it very convenient to not need to check whether alcohol is served when I enter a place, or switch to open carry like many Virginians choose to do.

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Originally Posted by retsupt99

I'd rather this be a discussion of your state's laws regarding carrying in restaurants or your experiences while so doing.

O.K....
FL is very unique when it comes to alcohol and guns.
First, bars are off limits while CCW...period!
But, I like the but's, one can enter restaurants and actually have a meal with a drink and be armed.
One cannot, however, sit in the bar portion of that same restaurant (Applebee's, or Outback's, etc.) and have a burger without having a drink...strange, but true.
We can pretty much go everywhere to eat while armed...I don't do regular bars anyway. The FL laws are fine with me.:comeandgetsome::danceban:

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Yup, it might sound a little weird, but that it is way it is. In any case, I think that I can live with that. :smile:

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Originally Posted by Agave

Heh. The question is why did you go to a restaurant on Sabbath?

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Maybe he didn't have a "shabbos goy" to light the stove?

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Originally Posted by wildcatCWP

In AZ, we've only been able to carry into restaurants that serve alcohol since September of '09, and only with a valid CCW permit, and only concealed, and only if we don't drink, and only if the establishment doesn't post against us -- which is, I am sad to say, quite common, because I haven't yet gone to a restaurant that does not have the official gunbusters sign posted at the entrance.

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I have yet to find a restaurant posted in Chandler or Gilbert... or in the Biltmore area in Phoenix. Mill Avenue in Tempe is basically off limits, but if you're a Wildcat I can't imagine you would voluntarily choose to spend any time there!

Seems maybe you're not as well versed as you think:

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Any person granted a concealed handgun permit who is under the influence of alcohol or illegal drugs while carrying such weapon in a public place shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

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Sorry - I know you asked not to hear it, but you don't get to pick and choose responses on a public forum. Alcohol + guns is a bad idea.

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Originally Posted by LLT

Seems maybe you're not as well versed as you think:



Sorry - I know you asked not to hear it, but you don't get to pick and choose responses on a public forum. Alcohol + guns is a bad idea.

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That's the law I was referring to in my post. I didn't have a quote or code reference, but my friend got a copy from his lawyer and had shown it to me. Thanks for the quote on it.

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Originally Posted by LLT

Sorry - I know you asked not to hear it, but you don't get to pick and choose responses on a public forum. Alcohol + guns is a bad idea.

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Do a little search on this issue (here and elsewhere) and Virginia law as applied.

"Under the influence of alcohol" is not the opposite of total tea-totaling. :bier:

Question: Has anyone a citation of any case in Virginia where § 18.2-308. J1

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J1. Any person permitted to carry a concealed handgun, who is under the influence of alcohol or illegal drugs while carrying such handgun in a public place, shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. Conviction of any of the following offenses shall be prima facie evidence, subject to rebuttal, that the person is "under the influence" for purposes of this section: manslaughter in violation of § 18.2-36.1, maiming in violation of § 18.2-51.4, driving while intoxicated in violation of § 18.2-266, public intoxication in violation of § 18.2-388, or driving while intoxicated in violation of § 46.2-341.24. Upon such conviction that court shall revoke the person's permit for a concealed handgun and promptly notify the issuing circuit court. A person convicted of a violation of this subsection shall be ineligible to apply for a concealed handgun permit for a period of five years. [emphasis added]

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has been successfully applied other than the enumerated situations or when blood or breath test would have been prima facie evidence of being "under the influence"?

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Originally Posted by StevePVB

Hard to miss. It was a separate paragraph in a very short post.

Besides, I think his gun actually was "put away". (In your hand = not put away. In your holster = put away).

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Took the words right out of my post:congrats::congrats: If your going to drink leave the gun in the holster.