Stopped by cops for Open carry on Campus-Video. What do you think? - Page 3

Stopped by cops for Open carry on Campus-Video. What do you think?

This is a discussion on Stopped by cops for Open carry on Campus-Video. What do you think? within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; whoa! so he DID talk to those who are in authority as superiors but STILL got shut down?!????!!!!? brewerjc@uvu.edu "The open carrying of firearms on ...

Page 3 of 10 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 138
  1. #31
    Member Array mustang00066's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Bountiful, Utah
    Posts
    107
    whoa! so he DID talk to those who are in authority as superiors but STILL got shut down?!????!!!!?
    brewerjc@uvu.edu
    "The open carrying of firearms on our campus, even by concealed permit holders, is a violation of UVU policy unless I give written approval for such. I have given no such approval either to you or anyone else on this campus. If you are found to be openly carrying a firearm on this campus again you may be subject to arrest and confiscation of your firearm as evidence of the violation as detailed in Utah Revised Statute 76-8-710, Disruption of School Activities. Additionally you may be subject to possible UVU administrative sanctions for policy violation. I advise that you no longer carry your firearm openly." -Chief Brewer
    Well in that case i hope that he contacts his legislature friends and they educate this Chief Brewer. Stupid school policy at a state school DOES NOT override state law, even if this chief seems to think it does!!!
    "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
    -Alexander Hamilton


  2. #32
    VIP Member
    Array DaveH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    SW Virginia
    Posts
    5,036

    The Real Rub

    Ah, the real rub for a student:

    "The open carrying of firearms on our campus, even by concealed permit holders, is a violation of UVU policy....Additionally you may be subject to possible UVU administrative sanctions for policy violation. I advise that you no longer carry your firearm openly." -Chief Brewer"
    Maybe time for a visit from non-students or employees, if your State law preemption law is clearly written.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  3. #33
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    1,098
    "The open carrying of firearms on our campus, even by concealed permit holders, is a violation of UVU policy....Additionally you may be subject to possible UVU administrative sanctions for policy violation. I advise that you no longer carry your firearm openly." -Chief Brewer"
    I'd like to see the policy. If it is school policy that OC isn't permitted then then Mr. Moyes is out of gas

  4. #34
    Administrator
    Array SIXTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    19,900
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    Interesting!

    Is there a "reasonable person" element in Ohio Law and/or court cases?

    Here in Virginia, in both statute and case law, we have a fair amount of the following scattered through various statutes & cases decisions:

    "...in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another...."

    "...would cause a reasonable person to...."

    "...in a manner such that a reasonable person may believe...."

    "...was placed in reasonable fear of death, criminal sexual assault, or bodily injury to himself or to a minor child...."

    "...shall be conclusively deemed to have acted with reasonable...."

    "... reasonable under the circumstances...."

    Were all but a few folk at the site going about their business w/o "raising alarm" would that have any weight in an Ohio court? If only one Anti "raised alarm" while everyone else was OK, would it carry weight?
    Yeah, there is, and its a lot in public order crimes. If no alarm was raised, then no, no offense. One person is not enough. It specifically states two or more. One example that I have used often as a patrol officer is this;
    A person is upset and screaming/yelling obscenities on the street. There has to be two or more people present (not including me and the suspect) within ear shot before I could make a disorderly case.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaxMentis View Post
    And yet numerous state Attorney Generals have stated that mere open carry does not constitute DC...(The first to come to mind, since I read it most recently, is Wisconsin)
    Yes, we are all in agreement that OC by itself does not constitute a disorderly person. However, if it can be shown that the person was OC'ing in order to create a disturbance, the case still could be made.
    I do think that in the current climate of school shootings almost daily, one could very easily make a case of it if they really wanted to.
    Quote Originally Posted by mustang00066 View Post
    whoa! so he DID talk to those who are in authority as superiors but STILL got shut down?!????!!!!?

    Well in that case i hope that he contacts his legislature friends and they educate this Chief Brewer. Stupid school policy at a state school DOES NOT override state law, even if this chief seems to think it does!!!
    Actually, school policy can in fact over ride state law in a sense. If the school does not want somebody on campus with a gun, that is there right assuming their is no legislation specifically prohibiting that exclusion in Utah. I have no idea if there is or not, I'm guessing not.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  5. #35
    Member Array mustang00066's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Bountiful, Utah
    Posts
    107
    GUNS IN SCHOOLS: UVU police confront student wearing holstered gun to school - KSTU

    Video interview with the student. I think he did a great job and the reporter said that they called BCI and the dept of safety and both said student was within his rights to OC on campus!

    [/ 53B-3-103. Power of board to adopt rules and enact regulations.
    (1) The board may enact regulations governing the conduct of university and college students, faculty, and employees.
    (2) (a) The board may:
    (i) enact and authorize higher education institutions to enact traffic, parking, and related regulations governing all individuals on campuses and other facilities owned or controlled by the institutions or the board; and
    (ii) acknowledging that the Legislature has the authority to regulate, by law, firearms at higher education institutions:
    (A) authorize higher education institutions to establish no more than one secure area at each institution as a hearing room as prescribed in Section 76-8-311.1, but not otherwise restrict the lawful possession or carrying of firearms
    ; and
    (B) authorize a higher education institution to make a rule that allows a resident of a dormitory located at the institution to request only roommates who are not licensed to carry a concealed firearm under Section 53-5-704 or 53-5-705.
    "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
    -Alexander Hamilton

  6. #36
    Member Array SAMI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    217
    Utah law does not prohibit a CCW holder from carrying a loaded firearm in a holster openly - even on school grounds, thus, making it not illegal. The student tried to explain the common law idea to the officer but the officer didn't grasp what he was getting at.
    Forget 'Twitter', i'm on the CB...
    Cruiser Outfitters
    Utah Firearm
    Expedition Utah

  7. #37
    Administrator
    Array SIXTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    19,900
    It was obvious the officer grasped what the kid was trying to say. The officer was simply trying to get the point across that it probably wasn't a good idea for a number of reasons. OC itself might not be illegal in Utah, but if the school wants him removed for it, they have that right... don't they?

    I guess my point is that there is other laws and perceptions that do matter when it comes to OC; not just the statutes that specifically deal with carrying. The law and application of it is much more complicated than most people understand.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  8. #38
    Member Array SAMI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    217
    OC'ing is legal in Utah w/out a CCP so long as it is not loaded (Utah law a 'loaded' firearm is a firearm with a round in the chamber), which means that a loaded mag and no chambered round is 'unloaded'. UT law prohibits firearms on or near school zones unless you are a CCP holder.. Combine the two now that you have a CCP - you can now OC a loaded firearm, because it is not prohibited.
    Forget 'Twitter', i'm on the CB...
    Cruiser Outfitters
    Utah Firearm
    Expedition Utah

  9. #39
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    1,098
    Originally posted by SIXTO but if the school wants him removed for it, they have that right... don't they?
    If I read what Mustang00066 posted correctly they don't

  10. #40
    Administrator
    Array SIXTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    19,900
    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    If I read what Mustang00066 posted correctly they don't
    Yeah, I was just reading that. Good for them.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  11. #41
    Member Array SAMI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    217
    Debate surrounds open carry gun laws on school grounds

    A local student is questioning whether second amendment rights are being upheld after a confrontation with police at Utah Valley University.

    Nick Moyes is a student at the university and has held a concealed weapons permit since January 2007, he said. He has carried his gun openly since September, without any issues, Moyes said. Friday morning, however, Moyes said he was confronted by a UVU police officer after people called police reporting a man on campus with a gun.

    Moyes said he was not trying to draw attention to himself and was not acting in a threatening way at the time.

    "All I was doing was standing on a ladder and adjusting our banner," he said.

    Moyes filmed part of the confrontation and posted two videos on YouTube.com. In the videos, an officer can be seen leaning on a nearby railing while talking with Moyes, telling him he is not allowed to carry openly on campus. The officer tells him he is giving open carry a bad name by doing it on a school campus. As soon as someone sees him with the gun, the officer said, it causes a problem.

    "Carry it concealed, and it's a dead issue," the officer said.

    The officer threatened to cite Moyes and told him he can argue open carry with a judge. He also warned that the Bureau of Criminal Identification can take Moyes's permit away. Moyes, however, argued that he has the right to carry the gun on campus. State law provides that a person must have a concealed firearm permit to carry a gun on a school campus. However, there are no laws prohibiting a person with a permit from carrying a firearm openly on campus.

    Moyes argues in the video that it is his right, while the officer said the problem occurs when carrying the weapon disrupts school. The officer told Moyes he received calls from citizens reporting a man in a yellow shirt with a gun.

    "I'm not trying to take away your rights or anything else, but the school has the right to make sure that everybody ... feels safe," the officer said.

    The officer also said many times that he supports second amendment rights and is a self-described "gun nut." He also said it is OK to open carry, but not on campus.

    "Open carry all you want out on the road, I don't care," he said. "But here, it's a problem."

    Moyes said he has had nothing but good experiences while openly carrying his weapon before now. Many people have thanked him, he said, and said they feel safer. He admitted that he open carries his weapon partly because it is a right he is afforded, but he also said it is more comfortable and convenient. He said he will be contacting the state attorney general and has filed a records request with the police department, but he doesn't know how far he wants to carry the issue.

    "I wasn't doing it to be an activist," he said.

    Moyes said he has asked campus police in the past whether he could openly carry his weapon. He was told, he said, that it was OK but that he could be cited if someone became alarmed and "freaked out." Moyes said he tries his best not to draw alarm, dressing well and staying clean-shaven. However, he said he could understand that the school shootings over the years may have left people wary of guns in schools.

    "I can absolutely see that side of the coin," he said.

    After sending an e-mail to the UVU chief of police, Moyes received a response saying he could not open carry on campus without written approval. If he openly carries again, he could have his weapon confiscated and be charged with disruption of school activities.

    Opinions on the topic vary, with some saying open carry on campus is legal, but not advised. The attorney general's office said they have not received a complaint and declined to comment. Clark Aposhian, chairman of the Utah Shooting Sports Council and firearms instructor, said the council stands up for the public's right to open carry.

    Aposhian said it is legal to open carry on a school campus with a concealed weapons permit, but said he teaches students to choose carefully where they do so. He does not personally open carry in schools or banks, he said.

    "Just out of decorum," he said. "But it is certainly legal to do."

    Lt. Douglas Anderson, with Utah BCI, said it is lawful to carry a concealed firearm on campus with a permit, but open carry is a "different animal." It is not expressly allowed or disallowed, he said. Legislation is proposed this year to help clarify what it means to display a weapon in a threatening manner, he said, but just openly carrying a gun is not a threat.

    One statute that could pose a problem with open carry on a campus is the disruption of school activities law, Anderson said, though he said interpreting the statute would be up to the attorney general.

    The statute provides a person "whose presence or acts interfere with the peaceful conduct of the activities of any school or disrupt the school or its pupils or school activities, and who remains there, or who re-enters or comes upon the place within 72 hours, after being asked to leave by the chief administrative official of that school or his representative or agent is guilty of an offense."

    Anderson said he did not know what affect the statute would have, but it may provide a school with grounds to keep a person from openly carrying a weapon on campus.

    "There could be some conflict between this and the other statutes," he said.

    UVU spokesman Chris Taylor, however, said there is little ambiguity, as far as the school is concerned. A person with a concealed weapons permit can bring a gun on campus, and they must conceal it.

    "We're just saying to conceal it as the state defines that it ought to be concealed," he said.

    Taylor pointed to a "frequently asked questions" portion on the BCI Web site that states a gun cannot be pulled or even displayed without justification or self-defense. He pointed out that people on campus were concerned when they saw Moyes's gun and notified police, who confronted him tactfully and patiently.

    "They're not out there looking for guns," Taylor said. "People are calling university police when these things happen and they're concerned about them."

    In the end, Moyes concealed his weapon after speaking with officers. He said he intends to do so until this is sorted out, and he would not mind if the response from the attorney general was to do just that. Moyes said he was never trying to draw attention to himself, and he does not want to do anything that might get him kicked out of UVU.

    "I love UVU," he said. "It's a fantastic school."

    Posted in Local, Orem on Tuesday, March 9, 2010 12:55 am Updated: 7:44 am. | Tags: Orem, Gun, Open Carry Movement,

    Debate surrounds open carry gun laws on school grounds
    Forget 'Twitter', i'm on the CB...
    Cruiser Outfitters
    Utah Firearm
    Expedition Utah

  12. #42
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    1,098
    There's one point the cop makes that I can't get away from. In Colorado it used to be legal to OC in city buildings until and "activist' Named Donald Ortega started showing up at city council meetings W/ a canary yellow shot gun W/ a smiley face painted on it. It took about three times of him doing that before the council voted to ban OC in city owned or leased buildings.

  13. #43
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Lansing Mi
    Posts
    7,277
    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    There's one point the cop makes that I can't get away from. In Colorado it used to be legal to OC in city buildings until and "activist' Named Donald Ortega started showing up at city council meetings W/ a canary yellow shot gun W/ a smiley face painted on it. It took about three times of him doing that before the council voted to ban OC in city owned or leased buildings.
    It really is a double edged sword. Hard to make the call on this.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  14. #44
    Member Array SAMI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    217
    Utah has a good number of very pro-gun folks in office, most of which the victim Moyles rubs shoulders with frequently. This will be the moment of truth for those in office who really support the issue.
    Forget 'Twitter', i'm on the CB...
    Cruiser Outfitters
    Utah Firearm
    Expedition Utah

  15. #45
    VIP Member
    Array sigmanluke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    3,209
    The UofU fought in court for just over 2 years to be able to ban legally carried guns on campus......THEY LOST!

    The (public) schools have to follow the state laws, there is no way around that. They cannot give ANY consequences to faculty or students who legally carry weapons. For this to be against a school policy is showing the school to be breaking the law.

    Although some don't like to see guns in public, especially in schools, our state legislature worked long and hard to pass well written, clear laws concerning guns. The fact that OC is not statutorily illegal, shows that it IS LEGAL, whether they like it or not.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
    Thomas Jefferson

Page 3 of 10 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. University president opposes open carry law on campus
    By cyberdogg in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: January 11th, 2011, 11:29 PM
  2. Interesting article regarding TX open carry and campus carry
    By arawn in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: February 2nd, 2009, 09:01 PM
  3. A short video on why Open Carry should be legal
    By SubNine in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: February 26th, 2007, 08:57 PM

Search tags for this page

2917.11b ohio ccw
,
can i open carry on university property in ohio
,
can you get a ccw in ohio with a disorderly conduct
,
can you open carry on campus
,
college campus ohio open carry
,

is it legal to openly carry on ohio university campuses

,
ohio open carry on a college campus
,

open carry not prohibited on ohio's campuses

,

open carry ohio college campus

,

open carry on campus

,

open carry on campus ohio

,
open carry videos
Click on a term to search for related topics.

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors