Stopped by cops for Open carry on Campus-Video. What do you think? - Page 8

Stopped by cops for Open carry on Campus-Video. What do you think?

This is a discussion on Stopped by cops for Open carry on Campus-Video. What do you think? within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by mlr1m I agree that doing those things would be very unwise. You would be doing so at your own peril. Unless there ...

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Thread: Stopped by cops for Open carry on Campus-Video. What do you think?

  1. #106
    LLT
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    I agree that doing those things would be very unwise. You would be doing so at your own peril. Unless there is a law against being stupid there is no law for the officer to enforce. Do we want the to grant the government the power to decide what we are allowed to do on the grounds of stupidity?

    Michael
    Well, I hate to play devil's advocate, but someone has to define stupid and enact laws for the greater good of us all. Driving 90mph in a school zone is stupid, but you know if there wasn't a law against it and people enforcing said laws, people would do it. Sorry - stupid people exist.


  2. #107
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    Well, I hate to play devil's advocate, but someone has to define stupid and enact laws for the greater good of us all. Driving 90mph in a school zone is stupid, but you know if there wasn't a law against it and people enforcing said laws, people would do it. Sorry - stupid people exist.
    The difference being , driving 90 mph through a school zone places other people at risk. simple possesion of a firearm doesn't.

  3. #108
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    The difference being , driving 90 mph through a school zone places other people at risk. simple possesion of a firearm doesn't.
    Particularly when (as others who know the State's Law have posted) the OC was legal.

    Driving "90 mph through a school zone" vs. doing something that is legal is straw-man argument -- the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.

    Nice try!
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  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    The difference being , driving 90 mph through a school zone places other people at risk. simple possesion of a firearm doesn't.
    I wasn't making a direct comparison. I was responding to:

    Do we want the to grant the government the power to decide what we are allowed to do on the grounds of stupidity?
    Slightly off-topic point being... someone has to regulate stupid.

  5. #110
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    So how does a legal act that endangers no one qualify as stupid?

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLT View Post
    Slightly off-topic point being... someone has to regulate stupid.
    Wow!

    What ever happened to "You can't fix Stupid"?

    Talk about a totalitarian state!

    [sarcasm]

    No to freedom. It's not safe.

    We need laws to protect every one from any type of stupidity?

    Let's start with regulating fat, salt, etc in food.

    We need a law to regulate the daily calorie intake.

    We need a law to require people eat vegetables.

    We need a law to mandate exercise regimes for everyone.

    We need to outlaw fried food.

    Wait a minute, more children die from drowning than guns, we need a law to outlaw pools. How about all swimming.

    [/sarcasm]

    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    Wow!

    What ever happened to "You can't fix Stupid"?

    Talk about a totalitarian state!

    [sarcasm]

    No to freedom. It's not safe.

    We need laws to protect every one from any type of stupidity?

    Let's start with regulating fat, salt, etc in food.

    We need a law to regulate the daily calorie intake.

    We need a law to require people eat vegetables.

    We need a law to mandate exercise regimes for everyone.

    We need to outlaw fried food.

    Wait a minute, more children die from drowning than guns, we need a law to outlaw pools. How about all swimming.

    [/sarcasm]

    Yes, that's exactly what I said. A bit dramatic, don't ya think, Dave? It's clear the point was missed. "Carry" on.

  8. #113
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    I don't think the point was missed I just don't think we agree. I mean really why sould the world flip because a guy is walking around W/ a holstered gun? Especially this guy who had a VCR in one hand and a 10 foot ladder in the other ?

  9. #114
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    Thumbs down Regulating stupid

    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    I don't think the point was missed I just don't think we agree.


    And I for one can agree to disagree.

    Where these opinions being made by a confirmed Brady Bunch member, I just agree to disagree, on a personal level, and walk away from the conversation. That's what the Antis are all about -- regulating what they see as stupid. They see owning guns as stupid. They don't trust people with guns. So, they want to regulate private ownership out of existence. They equate letting people carry in Starbucks to serving food tainted by E. coli.
    See: Why gun-control activists are targeting Starbucks - Los Angeles Times

    Although I'd walk away from that conversation, I'd fight them all the way on the political level.

    OTOH, how can someone who is pro-freedom not trust free men and women (with guns or what ever) and how can someone who is pro-freedom support the need to regulate the subjects to protect those subjects from stupidity?

    What I don't understand is how folk can say they don't trust people and need to regulate stupidity yet trust "someone" to write and enforce the regulations made because they don't trust....

    What I don't understand is how folk can say "we need to test and license" firearms ownership and carry because they don't trust people and fear stupidity of unregulated subjects.

    Lack of trust of freemen/freewomen and the need to regulate stupidity was the reason for prohibition. It is the rational for a nanny state of benevolent tyranny.

    Is there room for regulating of something like E. coli.? You bet -- because of a citizen would not know it was being served and would not have the resources to track down its source, etc after being damaged by E. coli.. Free choice and market pressure (including liability) would be be too little, too late.

    OTOH, I don't need regulations of fried food to keep me from making bad decisions. It's clear up front what I chose to eat. I don't need "someone" making that decision for me. Nor do I need regulations of ownership and use of my tools -- be they guns or power tools.

    Starbucks doesn't need regulations to ban guns. Let the market place work. Let freedom work through citizens/customers votes with $s.

    As always, YMMV. But, expect resistance from freemen to your regulation of your opinion of stupid.
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  10. #115
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    From the article quoted in post 41=
    Moyes said he has had nothing but good experiences while openly carrying his weapon before now. Many people have thanked him, he said, and said they feel safer.
    Oh Zeus, I hate seeing someone say that. That damned Sheepdog arguement. People Thank him? They feel safer? The reason to carry a gun is to protect yourself if it should be necessary. This doesn't mean you suddenly become responsible for anyone elses wellbeing. If someone thanks me and says they feel safer because of the pistol on my hip I would have to ask them why. What does my having a gun have to do with your feeling safer? What makes you think that I will be obligated by any legal or moral reason to protect you should something happen? Where is your gun? Why are you not carrying your own weapon to make yourself feel safer? Do you know what my gun if for? It's so that if I am unable to run away I can try to shoot my way past an opponent and then resume running to my car where I will then reload and drive away as quickly as possible. I'm not a cop. I'm not somebodies bodyguard. I'm not a hero. I am a common citizen just like you and you and, yes you too. Don't thank me. Take responsibility for your own safety, strap up or not, I don't care. People like that make me feel less safe. I don't like to be around them. They attract predators and I don't want to be near them any more than necessary.

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by yale View Post
    .... Why are you not carrying your own weapon to make yourself feel safer? .... Don't thank me. Take responsibility for your own safety, strap up or not, I don't care. People like that make me feel less safe. I don't like to be around them. They attract predators and I don't want to be near them any more than necessary.


    Assuming someone else is responsible for their safety is kissing cousins to assuming the state will provide all the protection and that they have no responsibility for their own safety.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    Especially this guy who had a VCR in one hand and a 10 foot ladder in the other ?
    That's it! That's why they called the cops! It wasn't the gun at at all!

    The American Ladder Institute claims itís more like 300 or close to one ladder fatality per day in the U.S. In fact, according to the World Health Organization, the U.S. leads the world in ladder deaths.
    It all makes sense now.

  13. #118
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    cam -corder?

    Was it ever stated WHY this kid had a cam-corder with him to begin with?
    Maybe he was just looking (waiting) for a "chance" to record his mantra.

    Or maybe he just happened to have it with him?? I don't know.

    Poor guy had to juggle a recording device, and a ladder all while trying to debate the Utah law with the LEO...LOL!

  14. #119
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    Pretty sure he was just using his cellular?

  15. #120
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    atleast the cops didn't go nuts and send in troops of thugs to taze and beat the crap out of the kid. overall it looked like a positive experience to me.

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