Modified Firearm for Defensive Carry...is it lawful? - Page 3

Modified Firearm for Defensive Carry...is it lawful?

This is a discussion on Modified Firearm for Defensive Carry...is it lawful? within the Related Gear & Equipment forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Wow, MitchellCT....thanks for your insight....

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Thread: Modified Firearm for Defensive Carry...is it lawful?

  1. #31
    Member Array joeyrh9's Avatar
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    Wow, MitchellCT....thanks for your insight.
    Remember as a rule of thumb in defensive carry...your intention is always to STOP....not to hurt, however; in a gun fight, its either me or them.....and Im sure as hell that it will NOT be me.
    -joey rh


  2. #32
    Member Array joeyrh9's Avatar
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    Hello everyone. To all who took part in this forum, thank you very much for your insight. There is a lot of different information on this topic but I guess I can safely say that the consensus from everyone that took part in this forum is, as long as there is no manipulation to any mechanism that discharges the firearm, we're good. The modification that I am making on my glock 23 do not effect the trigger, fireing pin, or any firing mechanism within the gun. Mods are purely cosmetic.
    Last edited by joeyrh9; June 4th, 2010 at 03:57 PM.
    Remember as a rule of thumb in defensive carry...your intention is always to STOP....not to hurt, however; in a gun fight, its either me or them.....and Im sure as hell that it will NOT be me.
    -joey rh

  3. #33
    Member Array Benthic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    The dangers of a modified firearm do exist; however...
    <snipped for brevity>
    Mitchell,

    A most excellent post! Thank you very much!

    Brian

  4. #34
    Member Array sentioch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyrh9 View Post
    Hello everyone. To all who took part in this forum, thank you very much for your insight. There is a lot of different information on this topic but I guess I can safely say that the consensus from everyone that took part in this forum is, as long as there is no manipulation to any mechanism that discharges the firearm, we're good. The modification that I am making on my glock 23 do not effect the trigger, fireing pin, or any firing mechanism within the gun. Mods are purely cosmetic.
    I don't think Mitchell was intending to imply that cosmetic alterations will never have any effect in court. His entire post was about the possibility of the prosecution claiming you had an accidental discharge, because shooting someone accidentally is illegal.

    If there is no question as to whether it was accidentally discharged, I think that it's not going to matter if you had a lightened trigger pull modification.

    However it's also illegal to shoot someone who's not presenting you with an imminent physical threat. If there is a contention about whether or not an imminent threat was actually being presented to you, then the prosecution may be inclined to paint a picture of you as being a trigger happy gun nut who was just itching to shoot someone.

    For example, take this scenario: A man shoots someone using a stock Glock26 he claims tried to rob him with a knife. There are no witnesses, and the person he shot has no criminal record. A knife is found at the scene but it can't be proven that it belonged to the deceased.

    The court might have a difficult time proving that the killing was actually in self defense. In such a case, I think that it would look a lot more suspicious if the killer had used a full size gold plated 1911 chambered in .45, with 6 spare magazines on his belt, and had been bragging to his friends about how he was a lethal weapon, etc, etc. It's not hard to imagine that such a person might actually be trigger happy.

    It's not that it's illegal to shoot someone with a modified gun -- it's that the modifications you have done to your gun, as well as the choice of gun itself, help to give an overall impression which makes people think you are telling the truth or not.
    "In a world of compromise, some don't." -HK

  5. #35
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    I don't worry about carrying reloads because mine are not loaded to the max as some SD factory rounds are. I prefer a milder, more accurate and controllable round.
    Which sounds worse to someone sitting on a jury: a high-powered, factory-loaded Corbon designed to exert maximum destructive power on human flesh, or mild lead reloads more commonly used on a target range for punching holes in paper?
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post

    ...Massad Ayoob is not BSing when he writes about the dangers of a modified firearm.
    The great thing about Ayoob, is he can quote chapter and verse specific cases, all the details, the people involved, and every minute detail regarding just about thing he speaks about to back up his assertions. Usually, he was directly involved in providing pivotal testimony in a great many of those cases as well.

    Mas Ayoob is a walking encyclopedia on the subjects in which he speaks.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  7. #37
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Modified Firearm for Defensive Carry...is it lawful?
    Not to get you down or anything, but........nothing is "lawful" any more once you did what you did and get behind courtroom doors and into the system. Throw the dice and let the attorneys hash it out over a jury that might be on your side from the get go, or those that despise others whom take matters into their own hands like adults. You'll always have my best wishes. Do what you will....do as you must to make things right. You'll either be exonerated, or exemplified. As long as you've survived, you're doing well in my opinion. No matter what. Stay above ground as long as you can.

  8. #38
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    In all truth... "anything" can be used against you in court.... even if you didn't do it or it never happened.... I've seen DA's make up stuff as they went along and would argue a lemon is really an over-grown grape.

    A good defense attorney, can convince the jury otherwise.

    A good Judge, can sort out the baloney from reality.

  9. #39
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    The great thing about Ayoob, is he can quote chapter and verse specific cases, all the details, the people involved, and every minute detail regarding just about thing he speaks about to back up his assertions. Usually, he was directly involved in providing pivotal testimony in a great many of those cases as well.

    Mas Ayoob is a walking encyclopedia on the subjects in which he speaks.
    Problem is not one of the cases he cites deals directly with a self defense shooting. He is also not a person I would consider an authority on anything except perhaps gun rag journalism. A part time po-dunk hick town police officer a couple hours a month is a joke to even the cops around here that do more police work on accident that he does on purpose. Just because you have a badge and a gun doesn't make you a "cop". Ayoob spends more time stroking his ego than actually doing police work. Ayoob is one of the last people on the list I'd ask for advice on legal matters in self defense shootings.

    Know a lot of cops that spent more time in court than Ayoob testifying in such cases. I take theirs over Ayoob any day of the week.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  10. #40
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    Talking Yeah but...

    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I don't worry about carrying reloads because mine are not loaded to the max as some SD factory rounds are. I prefer a milder, more accurate and controllable round.
    Which sounds worse to someone sitting on a jury: a high-powered, factory-loaded Corbon designed to exert maximum destructive power on human flesh, or mild lead reloads more commonly used on a target range for punching holes in paper?
    Can't you just see some prosecutor with an agenda trying like hell on this one though?

    "Your Honor... I submit to you that these lower powered rounds are specifically designed to make it easy to fire multiple bullets into a human being, more accurately, causing more damage than any single round. Whereas normal recoil would have only allowed one maybe two rounds to be fired into the defendant, these rounds turn the gun into a laser of death, enabling the shooter to place a steady stream of DOOM into human flesh..."

    Ridiculous, but for some reason I could see it.
    Last edited by Kyodai; June 5th, 2010 at 07:09 AM. Reason: Spelling
    Anyone who thinks they have nothing left to learn about firearms safety is in my mind, dangerous.

  11. #41
    Member Array Benthic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyodai View Post
    Can't you just see some prosecutor with an agenda trying like hell on this one though?

    "Your Honor... I submit to you that these lower powered rounds are specifically designed to make it easy to fire multiple bullets into a human being, more accurately, causing more damage than any single round. Whereas normal recoil would have only allowed one maybe two rounds to be fired into the defendant, these rounds turn the gun into a laser of death, enabling the shooter to place a steady stream of DOOM into human flesh..."

    Ridiculous, but for some reason I could see it.
    Actually the problem with reloads is not so much in how they are loaded as it is that they are 'one of a kind.' The prosecution can allege that you loaded them hot, or loaded them improperly and there is nothing you and your attorney can say to refute that.

    Whereas, if you used factory ammunition there is published data available about the behavior of those rounds. You can also easily obtain more of the same ammunition for testing by the authorities, or by a hired defense expert witness that would shut down any bizarre allegations by the other side.

    But with reloads, that door is left wide open. Even 'lightly loaded' reloads have been a problem for defendants in the past. You can read about the NJ v. Daniel Bias case here. Just load factory ammunition and there will be one less problem to deal with if you ever have to go to court.

    Brian

  12. #42
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    If I wanted to carry a black powder revolver for self defense, for which factory ammunition is completely impossible, then what?
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post

    Don't carry any ammo named Devastator or Annihilator
    LOL sad part is thats what most of people i see i see in the shops buying!!!
    No matter what anyone says you can never own enough guns!!!
    Glock 26
    Ruger LCP

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIABLO9489 View Post
    IMO if it's justified, it's justified. Shouldn't matter if you used a stock gun.....


    Or one like this.......

    HOLY **** thats a crazy pistol!!!
    No matter what anyone says you can never own enough guns!!!
    Glock 26
    Ruger LCP

  15. #45
    Member Array joeyrh9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyodai View Post
    Can't you just see some prosecutor with an agenda trying like hell on this one though?

    "Your Honor... I submit to you that these lower powered rounds are specifically designed to make it easy to fire multiple bullets into a human being, more accurately, causing more damage than any single round. Whereas normal recoil would have only allowed one maybe two rounds to be fired into the defendant, these rounds turn the gun into a laser of death, enabling the shooter to place a steady stream of DOOM into human flesh..."

    Ridiculous, but for some reason I could see it.
    WOW!!! Kyodai, very compelling thought.....You are so right, an attorney can make anything look to their favor.
    Remember as a rule of thumb in defensive carry...your intention is always to STOP....not to hurt, however; in a gun fight, its either me or them.....and Im sure as hell that it will NOT be me.
    -joey rh

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