This is a discussion on The Civilian C2 Taser As A Viable Option For Those Unable To Carry A Firearm ? within the Related Gear & Equipment forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; My main issue with them is how to get the required training. Not seeing a whole mess of tazer courses out there, even when I've ...
My main issue with them is how to get the required training. Not seeing a whole mess of tazer courses out there, even when I've bothered to look. Most folks will be pretty much out of luck in this regard, especially what with the economy being what it is and cutting down on unnecessary travel . My secondary issue is how many will bother with this training anyway. Everybody knows that firearms can be very dangerous and look at how few people bother to train with their guns at home beyond the occasional trip out to the cuds to blat a few off at old beer cans. Now extend this feeling to a weapon that is harder to find training for, "doesn't really hurt anyone", and is somewhat hard to get reloads for. I think that they're a good way for a lot of overconfident soccer mom's to get themselves into a real bad spot.
Plus with any other SD equipment, you have to train, train, train. If you miss the BG with the dart(s), you have to train on taking out the 1st cartage and put in the 2nd one and if all else fails, stun em.
Glock: G22 .40 S&W and G23 .40 S&W Sig Sauer: P938 9mm Smith and Wesson: Model 437 .38 Spl, Model 65 357 Mag, and Sigma SW9VE 9mm
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
The 30 second feature is pretty nice, but what happens when you can't get very far in thirty seconds? One very popular attack type for criminals is the single mother (at the scene, not the political cliche) with the kid(s) getting everything inside and ready to go. They freak out when the guy comes at them, they fumble for the tazer and manage to get it going, stare for at least second or two because it's just plain ol' going to draw their attention seeing someone screaming and doing the kickin' chicken in a parking lot, fumble with the car seat straps in a panic when it suddenly occurs to them that they need to get the kid(s) and do a runner, and they've probably lost right around 15 seconds of that charge (if not more). Now they're trying to run with a kid or two and probably not exactly going to make the grade for the US track team on this particular sprint. In fact, I'm willing to bet that a pretty common situation like this one is what brought the charge up to 30 seconds in the first place.
Now add what I said above. Most of these ladies won't have bothered with training. They haven't stress-tested their ability to rapidly get their kid(s) out of the car seats. The suspect might have half sprawled into the car and are in the way of the side door of the van. All sorts of random non-optimal stuff going on like purses and diaper bags getting hung up.
It seems like a decent tool for trained people, but I'm just not seeing it for the reality of most folks out there. The people who seriously train for SD and stress-testing their tools are pretty small minority of 1-2% of the population. What works great for the CCW soccer mom with a black belt and a whole boatload of kick butt attitude probably isn't going to work so hot for a scared out of her wits soccer mom who hasn't trained at all.
Whether it is the 5-second ride of the X26 I am issued, or this new new 30-second version, there MUST be a Plan B. It is all too easy for one dart to miss, and even two darts don't guarantee a stop. One or more darts/wires can break or come loose as the bad guy falls. And, as has already been said here, when the ride is over, it is over. Of course, the X26's trigger can be held for a longer ride, but you still have a tiger by the tail.
To be clear, I am not anti-Taser. It can be a very useful tool.
It could also be argued a gun gives a false sense of security for those who are mentally weak.
Back to the Taser itself, I think we can all agree it is not perfect, and neither are all of its potential users. It does, however represent a viable defensive option for those that cannot (or will not, for whatever reason) carry a lethal weapon. It only gives you 30 seconds, but that is 30 seconds more than you had before.
My only point is that a Taser actually takes more skill and training to use effectively with a high rate of success vs. a firearm. Many people believe that it is some point and click magical contraption; it is not.
"Just blame Sixto"
If electronic 'weapons' were lawful in MA, I'd order four of these right now today.
One to be hard stored in both cars, one stored as hidden at our kitchen (conjunction-point between front, side and rear doors) and a fourth stored as hidden in our bedroom.
As to not being able to grab your stuff/kids and flee inside of :30s, there are many people real world who would challenge that thought and have directly.
This is how far one can get in just 30 seconds
Not to mention that if you have ever been or seen someone tased by normal LEO tasers which have just a :05s cycle time, per trigger pull....Then to imagine how majorly disoriented and overall TKOd a person might be after riding the rail for _half a minute_ at SIX times the normal time length might be is not difficult.
'Warren Police Officer Tasers Handcuffed Woman Multiple Times'
'Sex Predator Gets Tasered'
'POLICE TASER A CRAZY GUY'
'Clip 00004 Big Guy Tasered 2 Angles'
These are again law enforcement cases and they are as an industry standard set to five second max cycle rates, per trigger pull/depression.
With a THIRTY SECOND cycle rate that is more than enough time to remove ones self from immediate imminent danger/harm, even if they watched the person writhe in agony for a second or four. Not to mention that largely the majority of people tased, just for 5 seconds, walk away from it very much dased, confused and suffering from very real trauma be it from the initial impact of their unsupported fall to the ground never mind the pain of experiencing a full body charlie horse muscle cramp.
Thirty seconds is a loooonnnngg time to be hearing nothing but your own screams along with tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick....
P.S. - Agreed with others regarding training.
Like anything and everything else defensive (firearms, sprays, batons, strikes & martial art usage, and even simply _running_) there is and should be a component of training and applied practice involved. That much should be a given and goes without saying.
That being a matter of fact though does not at all invalidate the product or it's civilian use, same as it does not toward all manner of firearms, sprays, batons, strikes & martial art usage or simply practicing at when, where and how to run (flee).
Image source - http://www.diyselfdefense.com/taserc2
'Taser C2 Review'
'Army ranger vs Taser C2' [Note all manner of safety violations here...Do not do this!]