Real Problem with a well Known Gunsmith; need advice

Real Problem with a well Known Gunsmith; need advice

This is a discussion on Real Problem with a well Known Gunsmith; need advice within the Related Gear & Equipment forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have a very unusual situation and would welcome some advice. About two months ago I sent to 1911 slides to a very well known ...

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  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Gideon's Avatar
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    Real Problem with a well Known Gunsmith; need advice

    I have a very unusual situation and would welcome some advice. About two months ago I sent to 1911 slides to a very well known custom gun maker to have some night sights installed. I'd purchased the sites from this same source long before that with the intent of having a local gun smith install them. The local guy messed up trying to install them on the compact slide. He was honorable and bought a replacement sight from the same custom gun maker.

    So I boxed up the two slides and the new (never opened) set of sights for a mid-size 1911 slide and the one replacement front sight for the other and mailed it off. That was nearly three months ago. When I followed up they seemed confused about what I'd sent. Followed up again a week or two a ago and was told they were waiting on sights from Trijicon. Reminded them that I sent in the sights to be installed.

    Well I got a call from them yesterday and they said all that was in the box was one single "rear" sight.

    here's the problem. I'm 99.9999% sure of what I mailed. The guy said he opened the box and that's all that was in it. If I insist I'm basically calling him a liar. I looked around to see if I accidently left them out but don't see them anywhere. I'm very sure but let's face it, I've done stupid things in the past so I'm always hesitant to say I haven't. You can see the dilemna. One of us is either just making a mistake, or worse, lying about it.

    The funny thing is this is a very well know custom gun maker. Everyone of you would likely know their name and they have a great reputation which is why I'm leaving their name out for now.

    There's not much I can do if they insist I only sent a single back sight. The sights weren't cheap and then I still need to get my slides done. I'd hate to have them return everything undone and with only a rear sight for one gun. I wish I'd taken a picture of everything in the box or a video but that's plain silly.

    So what would you recommend? I'm leaning towards having them mill, provide, and install night sights on the compact becasue that's the one I sometimes carry and tell them to leave the mid-size alone. It has the old GI sights.

    thoughts?

    Gideon


  2. #2
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    If you didn't insure it the onus is on you. Contact the carrier immediately. Wait. He signed and accepted it. Then sat on it He is responsible for replacement. Good luck

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    Did you send a set of instructions with the slides/sights? What were they? If your instructions made it clear that you wanted the included sights installed and they didn't contact you about missing parts when they first received your package, I'd say that's pretty indicative of them losing the sights as no one is going to let a package sit around for 3 months unopened - especially a gun shop that is subject to BATF scrutiny.

  4. #4
    Distinguished Member Array Gideon's Avatar
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    a good point nedrgr21; in fact I sent a very detailed letter explaining the situation, what I'd included and even the fact that I'd had the local gun smith attempt it and bust a vial. I explained how that gunsmith bought a new front sight to replace the one that was broken and that's why there was one bag (the oem bag) that had a new front sight and another one that had a complete set for the mid-size. I even pointed out that the local GS had gotten the rear sight on, hence only the front sight was being provided for the compact but that I wanted them to check the rear sight.

    I can't believe this company would lie at all. But we can all make mistakes which his why in these situations I'm alwasy very hesitant to pitch a fit (nicely of course). It doesn't seem possible that this could have sat unopened all this time so I do believe they could have gotten this mixed up somehow. Still it's very unfortunate when such business goes this way.
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    I don't think you would have imagined or dreamed that you put everything in the box. It's possible that they could have tossed something away with the packing.
    Looks like you are are right and they are wrong but, you're still between a rock and a hard place regardless.

    I don't know who you talked to there but, I sure would call again and ask to talk to the owner.
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    Ex Member Array Yoda's Avatar
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    Similar thing happened to me with a laptop sent for repair. They suggested also sending the power adapter for testing. I packaged both and sent it, they gave me quote and then allied when it was done. Luckily they kept all packing in the original box because while on the phone they found the adapter after insisting it wasn't sent.


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    Senior Member Array dV8r's Avatar
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    We sell a lot of pieces and parts for industry. It is not unusual for someone receiving a package, forwarding the package to the next person who opens the package and send the contents to the proper department, tossing the "empty" package and its filler material off to be recycled. Only to discover too late that the "empty" package still held some important small parts that were missed by the person who unpacked it. Now someone needs to replace those parts. The sender knows they were there. The receiver knows they are not now. It is always a difficult situation. IMHO the best approach is a compromise.
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  8. #8
    Distinguished Member Array Burns's Avatar
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    That really sucks man. Hope everything works out for you, like the others said, just contact EVERYBODY and try to get it resolved.
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  9. #9
    Distinguished Member Array Gideon's Avatar
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    good input from all. In the future I'll twisty tie the part bags to the parts so there's less chance of a mistake. I'm going to talk to the owner on Monday and explain my feelings about being sure but not wanting to accuse them. At the end of the day i can only ask them to do what they're willing to do to make me whole and that may end up as a compromise. I'll let you know how they handle it and "who" it is afterwards.

    This only makes me wish all the more that there was a highly skilled gunsmith in my local area. Over the years I've noticed a trend of fewer and fewer professional/skilled gunsmiths and an increase in young guys advertising to do gunsmithing that haven't really been trained. They think becasue they've messed with a lot their guns and their friends that they're ready to be a "gunsmith" but many aren't. I'd tried out this young kid and asked if he'd done this kind of work before. The answer was "yeah, lot's of times; it's easy!" After busting the vile trying to stake a front site he said the front sight was the problem because the metal was too hard and that when he called the maker of the sight (the well known gunsmith who has it now) they tried to sell him a professional staking tool/press and he said that was crazy.

    By the time I get these sights on these two slides and get my guns back together I'll almost have more in the sights and all the rig-a-ma-role than I do in the guns

    Live and learn....

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    OUCH!!!

    Thank God if I ever need something like this done, there is a few people in SE Michigan alone that can do this work.

    Good luck , and I hope they will rectify the problem, and make it right for you, W/O any further out-of-pocket by you, as they have a reputation to uphold, and should try to do the customer good. I would say at the very least you should pay is what the install would cost, and perhaps 1/4 the cost of the parts.
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    Take a cell phone of the box contents before you seal it.

    If you sent a detailed letter and the contents of the box didn't match what you wrote in the letter, they should have been contacting you.

    Splitting the difference of the cost would be the easiest scenario.
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    I take this as a cautionary warning--it would be wise to include a letter in a packing like this, along the lines of "enclosed are my 2 slides, with night sights, that you have agreed to install for $XX." and maybe email the same info to someone in customer service. that would seem to cover you better.

  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array Gideon's Avatar
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    good advice John but that's precisely what I did. I talked with them today and they insisted there was one single "loose & unpackaged" rear sight in the box witht the slides. I asked if there were event he little OEM bags with their name cards inside and he said no. Up until now I tried to think if I could have somehow left out one of the two bags of sights but there's no way I opened one up, took out the rear, threw it in the box and left all the rest out. I asked if they'd opened the box before the called me late last week. they said they didn't know. The gunsmith I was talking to doesn't receive the item but it looked sealed to him.

    I asked if they'll take in a shipment and hold it unopened for 2 months; he said he didn't know. At first there was a sliver of doubt in my mind but now I know something happened after it left me. I'm talking to the owner tomorrow. At this point they're telling me to complete the job I need to purchase more sights. The guy is being nice about it and so am I but I told him today how disappointed I am about this.

    I decided to explain all of this to the owner and tell him I still need to get the sights done on the compact even if I have to buy it but I wanted him to know all of this and I'm going to ask him if he feels he can discount the work/sights.

    And at this point I feel comfortable letting you all know that this is Fusion firearms. I've been talking to Dave who's one of the gunsmiths there. tomorrow I'm going to ask to Bob the owner.

    I don't think they're doing anything intentionally or with any malice, I think they opened it to receive it and somehow the two OEM packages got out and the "loose" unpackaged rear sight got tossed in the box.

    I'll let you all know how it turns out. What's also disappointing is that I've always dreamed of ordering a custom CCO style 19ll in 9mm from Fusion firearms.

    Have a good night
    Gideon

  14. #14
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gideon View Post
    good advice John but that's precisely what I did. I talked with them today and they insisted there was one single "loose & unpackaged" rear sight in the box witht the slides. I asked if there were event he little OEM bags with their name cards inside and he said no. Up until now I tried to think if I could have somehow left out one of the two bags of sights but there's no way I opened one up, took out the rear, threw it in the box and left all the rest out. I asked if they'd opened the box before the called me late last week. they said they didn't know. The gunsmith I was talking to doesn't receive the item but it looked sealed to him.

    I asked if they'll take in a shipment and hold it unopened for 2 months; he said he didn't know. At first there was a sliver of doubt in my mind but now I know something happened after it left me. I'm talking to the owner tomorrow. At this point they're telling me to complete the job I need to purchase more sights. The guy is being nice about it and so am I but I told him today how disappointed I am about this.

    I decided to explain all of this to the owner and tell him I still need to get the sights done on the compact even if I have to buy it but I wanted him to know all of this and I'm going to ask him if he feels he can discount the work/sights.

    And at this point I feel comfortable letting you all know that this is Fusion firearms. I've been talking to Dave who's one of the gunsmiths there. tomorrow I'm going to ask to Bob the owner.

    I don't think they're doing anything intentionally or with any malice, I think they opened it to receive it and somehow the two OEM packages got out and the "loose" unpackaged rear sight got tossed in the box.

    I'll let you all know how it turns out. What's also disappointing is that I've always dreamed of ordering a custom CCO style 19ll in 9mm from Fusion firearms.

    Have a good night
    Gideon

    Not sure if I want to open this can of worms or not but here goes...


    Their attention to detail sucks.

    A few years ago before they were building guns, they were selling parts on eBay, I ordered a mag well kit and it arrived missing parts/wrong parts. Not a big deal, I had the parts on hand that I needed to make it work. Sent them an email informing them of the issue. I don't recall the response other than "thanks

    When I started the build sheet for what turned into my Nighthawk, Fusion was the outfit I started working with for the build. They repeatedly butchered my build sheet and were sending other (incorrect) customers' spec sheets back to me for approval. Even after highlighting the errors on the sheets they provided they kept getting it wrong. Even after dealing with Bob Serva himself, my sheet was still getting slaughtered.

    I think after the 5th time of opening the PDF and finding the wrong details I lost all faith in them to do the build. I was not confident that I would get the gun I wanted. I went with Nighthawk and spent almost $2K more but got the gun I wanted.

    Having said all that, the odds that they lost your sights are pretty good.

    Sorry man, next time staple the baggies to the work order. I think you're on the hook for the sights, hopefully they'll discount the replacements.


    *Edited to add: I still have the emails from Bob with all the incorrect info.*

  15. #15
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    Well, talk to Bob Serva directly & now that the "Cat Is Out Of The bag" that its Fusion Firearms. He is a pretty decent guy. In fact you may wish to point him directly to this thread on DefensiveCarry.com - You have probably a couple of thousand folks on this thread that can vouch for your personal integrity based on all of your past posts and forum members who have dealings with you.

    I actually had one incredibly good and extremely positive past encounter with Bob Serva.

    I'm best guessing that he'll "take the high road" and make it right rather than take the negative publicity that he will get here if you end up ultimately getting screwed over.

    Just make sure that you post an update of your exact conversation with him here.

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