September 29th, 2006 11:40 AM
Helpful Stun Gun Information
First off Please Remember that there IS a difference between a hand held Stun Gun and a Taser.
The two terms are not interchangable and they are two distinctly different devices.
Taken from the Police Log Book
As usual all comments, additions, and opinions are welcome in any of my threads.
Stun Guns (zappers)
Here are some vendor "claims" regarding "stun guns" sold on the web, as well through catalogs and in retail stores:
"...instantly stops attacker..."
"...merely touching a person with the gun, they are immobilized for several minutes, with no permanent damage..."
"...causing the assailant to drop . . .trying to remember how to move his arms and legs..."
"...the sound alone is enough to scare any attacker away..."
"...used by police departments. Strong enough to take down any attacker!..."
Sounds effective, eh? WRONG!!!
Stun guns supposedly use electrodes to, when pressed against an attacker's clothing or flesh, send high voltages (50,000 to 300,000 volts at a tiny fraction of an amp) of electricity streaming through the assailant's body, instantly disabling them by overwhelming the assailant's nervous system.
When these devices first came on the market, some police officers and others were even video-taped in demonstrations where the stun guns supposedly "knocked them down" — carefully staged demonstrations where the person being "stunned" had been set up -hyped- into thinking they were going to be knocked down.
Through lengthy discussion of how it was going to feel, signing liability waivers, placing cushions/mats below where they would surely fall, placing strong men on either side to catch them before they hit the ground, and other psychological tricks to "prep" them into truly believing they were going to be physically knocked off their feet.
Well, if you believe something strongly enough, it may happen. Unfortunately, your attacker will probably not be so carefully prepped into believing that your stun gun is going to have the desired effect...
Our OUPD self-defense instructors became aware of the the problem of all the bogus "zappers" on the market several years ago at an Oklahoma Council on Law Enforcement Education and Training (CLEET) school where the trainers advised that the FBI had conducted testing on a number of "stun gun" devices on the market and had found: 1) none that worked as claimed (i.e. disabling an attacker) and, 2) some that didn't even produce enough power to cause any significant pain to the attacker.
Our self defense instructors have attended CLEET training where we've repeatedly "zapped" each other with various brands and models of "stun guns". The effects?
Being "zapped" by a stun gun just made us MAD!
And that's very likely what will happen if you use a stun gun on an assailant...just make them very mad.
We've been zapped on bare skin and through clothes. We've been zapped on various body parts, including on the neck at the base of the skull. We've been zapped for a second, and for five seconds, and for longer.
We've seen a defensive tactics instructor zapped on bare skin on the neck, continuously, for over a minute, with the most powerful "stun gun" the state training center could find, while fighting an opponent. The effect? It made him EXTREMELY ANGRY. It actually caused him to fight harder because of the pain.
Yes, they can be "painful". And if you zap someone long enough you can cause tiny burns, and likely cause bruises where the metal leads are jammed into the skin if you press hard enough. A very hard "pinch" would probably cause as much pain and injury.
If your idea of self-defense is to "pinch" the assailant as hard as you can and make them very angry, then a "stun gun" may be for you!
We've even had instructors go out and buy the latest-greatest stun gun they've seen advertised, with their own money, and bring it back to work where they could zap each other with it to test its effectiveness. Painful, sure. But much less painful than "a good swift kick" and nothing that would disuade a determined attacker. Painful enough, however, to make almost any attacker very angry at you.
The only scenario we can think of where such a device WOULD be effective is against very stupid criminals who might "think" one touch from a stun gun will lay them out on the floor. It's probably not a good idea, however, to plan your defense strategy around being attacked by someone who's very stupid.
Note: There are some electrical-shock based devices, available to police and corrections officers, that are reported to be effective, in some circumstances, including some devices like the "Air-Taser" that fire wire-line projectiles into the skin (bypassing skin resistivity) — but none that we'd recommend for the average citizen.
And, if the fact that they "just don't work" isn't enough, the stun gun is a device that requires that you prolong immediate contact with an attacker. We want you to get AWAY from the attacker!
Also, stun guns may be illegal to buy, carry, or use in your state.
September 29th, 2006 06:03 PM
Ummm, that was the problem I always with them and now I have a basketfull of other reasons as well. I'd sooner see someone try pepper spray with all of it's limitations if they can't/won't carry.
Originally Posted by QKShooter
Thanks for the good info!
If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.
October 1st, 2006 05:04 AM
However, the visible deterrent that a stun gun emits, when it is discharged in front of an aggressor, can be effective. There are not many who will continue an attack after seeing, what looks like, bolts of lightning in front of them. I have personally seen potential BG's change their minds after seeing, and hearing, a stun gun that is discharged for a few seconds.
This might be considered as a first, of a two part, deterrent to a BG, to be followed up with OC (pepper spray), if the threat continues.
Always remember: 3 can keep a secret, if 2 are dead!
October 4th, 2006 09:31 PM
When the Nova XR5000 first came out in the mid 1980s I once used one when I was working as a "bouncer" at a popular nightspotin Coconut Grove. About closing time (0530) some nut on PCP & Cocaine went nuts over somebody looking sideways at his main squeeze and the fight was on. He didn't feel ANY pain as the other bouncers just poured all over him. He shrugged them off and tossed them all over the place. They didn't pay me enough to act stupid so I went to the security office and got the XR5000. I crawled on my hands and knees under tables as the other guys were getting trashed. I got next to the bozo and leaned out and zapped him in the butt. I held contact for about 3 or 4 seconds. He dropped like he'd been sapped. I just know that once he was on the ground, the other bouncers walked up and did a Mexican Hat Dance on his face. We had to call an ambulance. I'm thinking it may have been more powerful than subsequent models? Maybe it was the drugs in his system? The Nova XR5000 was one of the first commercial stunguns. But I dunno.
Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.
October 17th, 2006 01:29 PM
I wouldn't mind having a stun gun as a guard. It's another tool to subdue someone and it has its place in the escalation process. Maybe you don't need to pound out the other person quite yet but need to control him. You can use some holds, for sure, but a stun gun can be an option.
Not sure however if I would recommend one to an ordinary citizen as a primary means of defense. I'd tend to recommend pepper spray as a better option (not talking about firearms here).
October 17th, 2006 07:46 PM
I too owned one of the earlier models... It was a monster that held 8 AA batteries. I never had to fend off an attack with it, (would have made one heck of an electrified club) but I did manage to shock myself with it a time or two while playing around with it. (was a teen at the time) Let me just say the only electrical shock I have ever had that was more painful was from a 480VAC 3 Phase system. I didn't drop, but the arm that the current passed through flexed violently, and without my telling it what to do.
The only other time it was ever employed was when a buddy of mine "borrowed" it from the trunk of my car in the high school parking lot (whole different world back then) and gave another guy a prolonged zap right smack dab on the right but cheek. He didn't fall either but he had some difficulty using his right leg for a few minutes.
It is hard to beleive we were ever that stupid. LOL!
I don't know about the newer stuff, but that thing might have been capable of taking the fight out of someone, but it would probably have been better employed as a club.
October 19th, 2006 02:23 AM
LOL at the comment about "one heck of an electrified club". Yeah, that's a lot of batteries.
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