LED flashlights and an EMP strike - Page 3

LED flashlights and an EMP strike

This is a discussion on LED flashlights and an EMP strike within the Related Gear & Equipment forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by CanuckQue I don't know if my car would work post-EMP. What spare parts should I have sequestered, in a small Faraday cage? ...

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 44 of 44
Like Tree26Likes

Thread: LED flashlights and an EMP strike

  1. #31
    Ex Member Array Snatale42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    431

    Re: LED flashlights and an EMP strike

    Quote Originally Posted by CanuckQue View Post
    I don't know if my car would work post-EMP.

    What spare parts should I have sequestered, in a small Faraday cage?
    You would need an old carborated truck or car from the 80s or older. While they still had computer then, there much easier to bypass them and let the engine run on its own. Modern cars are FAR to integrated with there on board systems to strip them down and have them run.

    Sent from my Galaxy SIII using Tapatalk 2


  2. #32
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,812
    Quote Originally Posted by CanuckQue View Post
    I don't know if my car would work post-EMP...
    Your car most likely won't even be affected. tests have revealed most cars simply keep running. One car out of ten had to be restarted and then it ran fine.

    Of course the EMP was simulated/generated tests, but that's better than internet speculation.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  3. #33
    RKM
    RKM is offline
    Distinguished Member Array RKM's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    1,825
    I'd be more concerned about the lock on my safe. I now store at least 1 or two firearms out side of the safe at all times. I'm so much worried about an EMP strike, but more about CME's, the things that are proven to happen and WILL happen again. The strength is suspected to be pretty strong.

  4. #34
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,812
    Quote Originally Posted by RKM View Post
    I'd be more concerned about the lock on my safe. I now store at least 1 or two firearms out side of the safe at all times. I'm so much worried about an EMP strike, but more about CME's, the things that are proven to happen and WILL happen again. The strength is suspected to be pretty strong.
    I think we're worrying about something that has never happened. E.g. all of our satellites are fully exposed in space. They have no shielding or protection from the earth's atmosphere and yet with all the solar flares, they just keep on working. I know of no legitimate claims that support a CME will disable electronic devices on earth, especially small devices like safe locks and cell phones, etc.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  5. #35
    Senior Moderator
    Array limatunes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    4,246
    A lot of people assume that absolutely EVERYTHING electrical will die in an EMP strike if it's not protected... I have no idea if that's true or not. I guess it's safer to assume it will and protect against that or be pleasantly surprised if it ever happens but who knows.. maybe it will only effect those things closer to the blast? No clue.. don't know much about EMPs but did come across this website...

    Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack

  6. #36
    Senior Member Array CanuckQue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Maritimes Canada
    Posts
    1,141
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    Your car most likely won't even be affected. tests have revealed most cars simply keep running. One car out of ten had to be restarted and then it ran fine.

    Of course the EMP was simulated/generated tests, but that's better than internet speculation.
    How do you simulate an EMP effect upon a car? Why didn't they just expose the cars to an EMP? And do you have a citation?
    Our current plan for Universal Iron Lung coverage, just sayin'.
    Wisest. Retirement. Plan. Ever.
    Good thing the March of Dimes worked. How, why?

    Alternately, for those with a tool shed, ideas, or creative loved ones to tell..


  7. #37
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,812
    Quote Originally Posted by CanuckQue View Post
    How do you simulate an EMP effect upon a car?
    Not sure precisely how they did it, but speaking as an electrical engineer, EMPs are generated from very fast rising, high amplitude current pulses. Rise times would have to be less than 10 ns (nano-seconds) to come close to the rise time of a nuclear generated EMP.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanuckQue View Post
    ...Why didn't they just expose the cars to an EMP?
    That's what they did. The pulse was generated electronically rather than by a nuclear explosion.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanuckQue View Post
    ...And do you have a citation?
    Do a search on the internet. You'll find that specific test with minimal effort.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  8. #38
    Senior Moderator
    Array pgrass101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    13,489
    I know my Bullseye lantern will work as long as I can find a candle to burn in it.

    I am doing pretty much what Lima has suggested, that is being able to live without power for an extended period of time. If we have a Carrington event or EMP and most electronics still work then I am fine, if not I still am prepared for loss of power during hurricanes and tornadoes.
    GetSmith likes this.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  9. #39
    Member Array GetSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    California
    Posts
    345
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    I think we're worrying about something that has never happened. E.g. all of our satellites are fully exposed in space. They have no shielding or protection from the earth's atmosphere and yet with all the solar flares, they just keep on working. I know of no legitimate claims that support a CME will disable electronic devices on earth, especially small devices like safe locks and cell phones, etc.
    You might be in for the show of a lifetime soon. Have you heard about the last carrington event in 1854? CME's caused the northern lights to be visable as far south as Cuba for 4 months. All electronics at the time (telegraph) were disrupted/destroyed. I hope your right but prepared if your wrong. Any regional/national/global strike on the electrical grid would cause absolute chaos and mass extension of upwards of 90% of the population. There are noted scientist warning about this but for obvious reasons the government isn't giving them credence or spreading the word. I gaurantee you all the power player$ in the world are prepared for a worst case scenario, are you?

  10. #40
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,890

    LED flashlights and an EMP strike

    As an electrical engineer, I agree with Tangle in that I don't believe that an EMP would have much effect on most modern equipment for two reasons. One, as Tangle said, small devices don't have enough antenna to produce much of a spike. Two, modern electronics work with signals with rise times on the 1-2 nanosecond time frame, which in order to work necessitates a lot of physical geometry and other design tactics that provides a resiliency to this type of electrical interference.

    Long single conductors like telegraph, power, and older telephone systems would be most susceptible and unlike the old days, even these are now protected against surges and transients. When you look at the system as a whole there is a lot of total protection built in, giving it quite a bit of mass, so to speak.

    At worst, I would expect momentary disruptions caused by power issues, much like a storm. Things with computers may need to be reset (power cycled), but I don't see a lot of things getting damaged.

  11. #41
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,812
    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    As an electrical engineer, I agree with Tangle in that I don't believe that an EMP would have much effect on most modern equipment for two reasons. One, as Tangle said, small devices don't have enough antenna to produce much of a spike. Two, modern electronics work with signals with rise times on the 1-2 nanosecond time frame, which in order to work necessitates a lot of physical geometry and other design tactics that provides a resiliency to this type of electrical interference.

    Long single conductors like telegraph, power, and older telephone systems would be most susceptible and unlike the old days, even these are now protected against surges and transients. When you look at the system as a whole there is a lot of total protection built in, giving it quite a bit of mass, so to speak.

    At worst, I would expect momentary disruptions caused by power issues, much like a storm. Things with computers may need to be reset (power cycled), but I don't see a lot of things getting damaged.
    We were typing the same thing at the same time - you must have been typing faster!

    I might add here, remember the ominous predictions about Y2K? Much of the same thing was claimed - power would shut down, computers would malfunction, the third world countries wouldn't be able to fix the problems and because they are connected all over the world via the internet, it would cripple banking, the Russians would attack before Y2K because their computers would go down if they waited and would be defenseless after Y2K, no gas, no financial access, no groceries because the internet would be bogged down, etc., etc., etc.

    What actually happened?
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  12. #42
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,890
    Another thing to consider is how much testing equipment really does get, even if it is not formal and documented. When I worked in design and production of electronic equipment we used to do a lot of informal testing to prove that the equipment was not going to have EMI issues. The testing involved using EM generators of various sorts, such as Jacob's Ladders, Clackers (AC relays set to door-bell by wiring the contacts in series with the closed contacts), drills with bad brushes, walkies-talkies, transient generators, etc. In close proximity, these devices would put out a hell of a lot of strong interference that would temporarily disrupt nearby computers and other equipment. Of course, unless it is required for some sort of official certification, nobody is going to the expense of formally testing their equipment. For example, I believe that FM (Factory Mutual) now requires EMI testing on a lot of fire protection equipment. Even if they do formal testing, to test for susceptibility is very difficult, so instead the focus is on emissivity. Fortunately, these two EM issues are flip sides of the same coin and addressing one automatically addresses the other. Equipment that used in an EU country has pretty substantial electrical emission standards that it must meet due to CE compliance (the EU standards are much more stringent than the commercial and industrial standards set by the FCC). While CE is self certified, the only product that I ever worked on where we did go through the hassle of doing expensive testing was on a CE marked product. What this means for the average person is that regulatory standards already guard against electrical interference in products, which also means that most devices are not likely to have a problem either.

    The idea that an EMP would simply fry everything electrical is, in my professional opinion, a myth that makes for good fiction but isn't something to seriously worry about.
    Tangle likes this.

  13. #43
    Senior Member Array CanuckQue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Maritimes Canada
    Posts
    1,141
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    Do a search on the internet. You'll find that specific test with minimal effort.
    I cannot possibly know what study you are talking about. As well, if you're the EE, then you should know the reputable sources vs. the tabloid articles. How can the non-specialist easily discern? All I find are blogs and reports of successful tests.

    This summary fits what you're talking about?
    "Automobiles were subjected to EMP environments under both engine turned off and engine turned on conditions. No effects were subsequently observed in those automobiles that were not turned on during EMP exposure. The most serious effect observed on running automobiles was that the motors in three cars stopped at field strengths of approximately 30 kV/m or above. In an actual EMP exposure, these vehicles would glide to a stop and require the driver to restart them. Electronics in the dashboard of one automobile were damaged and required repair. Other effects were relatively minor. Twenty-five automobiles exhibited malfunctions that could be considered only a nuisance (e.g., blinking dashboard lights) and did not require driver intervention to correct. Eight of the 37 cars tested did not exhibit any anomalous response."
    Our current plan for Universal Iron Lung coverage, just sayin'.
    Wisest. Retirement. Plan. Ever.
    Good thing the March of Dimes worked. How, why?

    Alternately, for those with a tool shed, ideas, or creative loved ones to tell..


  14. #44
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,812
    Quote Originally Posted by CanuckQue View Post
    I cannot possibly know what study you are talking about. As well, if you're the EE, then you should know the reputable sources vs. the tabloid articles. How can the non-specialist easily discern? All I find are blogs and reports of successful tests.

    This summary fits what you're talking about?
    "Automobiles were subjected to EMP environments under both engine turned off and engine turned on conditions. No effects were subsequently observed in those automobiles that were not turned on during EMP exposure. The most serious effect observed on running automobiles was that the motors in three cars stopped at field strengths of approximately 30 kV/m or above. In an actual EMP exposure, these vehicles would glide to a stop and require the driver to restart them. Electronics in the dashboard of one automobile were damaged and required repair. Other effects were relatively minor. Twenty-five automobiles exhibited malfunctions that could be considered only a nuisance (e.g., blinking dashboard lights) and did not require driver intervention to correct. Eight of the 37 cars tested did not exhibit any anomalous response."
    That's one I read. These are things I read a good while back about EMP. I read them, noted the differing opinions, and pretty much that ended that. The opinions ran from the death of all electronics, to minimal effect, to we really don't know, to it really depends on the electrical/electronic and physical features of the device.

    EE's can often detect claims contrary to known theory, e.g. charging an electric vehicle from a generator driven by the vehicle itself as it drives down the road. But it depends on how specialized the theory is. The EMP theory is a specialized field and while we (EE's) understand the principles involved, we cannot always discern the magnitude of effects. E.g. we can understand the electromagnetic fields, but we don't know the magnitude, pulse rise times, intensity versus distance, specifics of electronic devices and shielding, and in the case of a nuclear EMP, the intensity of the explosion, it's location, nor it's height when exploded.

    However, generally, the length of the antenna(s) effect, i.e. conductive path(s), and even the nature of the conductive path(s) directly affect the magnitude of the effect.

    It all depends.....I think that's what makes this so difficult.

    The problem is, we can't generate an EMP as generated by a nuclear device to see what it would do.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

flashlight emp

,
glock 26 flashlight
,
led flashlight and emp
,
powered by article dashboard in my arms
,
powered by article dashboard marks bookmarks net
,

powered by article dashboard oil field

,
powered by article dashboard regional integration theory
,
powered by article dashboard register to vote on the internet
,
powered by article dashboard remington arms homepage
,

powered by article dashboard small arms and light weapons

,
powered by article dashboard weapons engineer
,
powered by article dashboard world jerseys cycling
Click on a term to search for related topics.

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors