ACOG, EOTech, RedDot, and Traditional Scopes

This is a discussion on ACOG, EOTech, RedDot, and Traditional Scopes within the Related Gear & Equipment forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Mark Garrity An ACOG with JP Enterprises JPoint optic mounted on top of it for the best of both worlds. I've seen ...

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Thread: ACOG, EOTech, RedDot, and Traditional Scopes

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Garrity View Post
    An ACOG with JP Enterprises JPoint optic mounted on top of it for the best of both worlds.
    I've seen pics of the JPoint/ACOG setup before, and I always wondered about it. Since you've actually seen one on a rifle maybe you can tell me, can he actually get a decent cheek weld looking through the JPoint? It seems like line of sight would be awfully high, even on a flattop (obviously it would be even worse if the ACOG were mounted on a carry handle).

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  3. #17
    Member Array soflasmg's Avatar
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    I've used Jpoint (doctor optic) on subguns and while it is very compact the single small dot is not as easy to track as the eotech reticle.

    In my humble opinion.

    It's great to have so many options!

    The Marshmallowist

  4. #18
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    The Leopold that Daddy Warcrimes is talking about is the Mk4 CQ/T. One of the troops in my Co had one, and it worked very well. It did crack in the lower-right quadrant after a fall (the M4 it was attached to was leaning on a HMMWV tire, and slid off), but it still performed. It's a good option, IMO, but not cheap.

    There is a new ELCAN that fits basically the same role - it switches from 0x to 4x (with nothing in between), and is reportedly very rugger, reliable, and has good quality optics. I would stay away from the MGO (Maching Gun Optic) versions - they are excellent pieces of kit, but are very heavy and bulky for an AR-sized weapon.

    EOTechs are, in my experience, the fastest to acquire and easiest to use in-close. They are great for people with less than perfect vision, as has been noted. They will do everything you need them to do within 100m, and are less expensive than many of the other options discussed.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array fed_wif_a_sig's Avatar
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    I know that for entry purposes I'd stick with EoTech, for perimeter with the availability to do longer range precision and close quarters also I'd go with the ACOG/JPoint match up. Right now I have a simple Aimpoint on mine but that was before EoTech was tested and true.
    Steve
    "Respect all ... Fear none!!!

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array cagueits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    In Afghanistan, where I went from clearing rooms and buildings one day to sitting with some of my snipers overlooking literally thousands of meters of open ground the next day, I swapped between my EOTech and a Leupold 2-7x variable.
    Were you using A.R.M.S. throw levers or screws?

    Did the optics hold the BZO or you had to readjust when switching?

    Where did you carry your EOTech when not in use? (hard case, front handguards, ...?)

  7. #21
    Member Array Mark Garrity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    I've seen pics of the JPoint/ACOG setup before, and I always wondered about it. Since you've actually seen one on a rifle maybe you can tell me, can he actually get a decent cheek weld looking through the JPoint? It seems like line of sight would be awfully high, even on a flattop (obviously it would be even worse if the ACOG were mounted on a carry handle).
    Blackeagle,
    I'll see him at shift change on Monday morning and check for sure, but if I recall correctly yes. He does have a Vltor mod-stock on his, and I have one on mine also because it does provide a better cheek-weld with the battery compartment tube, so that may make a difference. I'll post again some time on Monday and let you know for sure.
    "He who makes things with his hands is a laborer, he who makes things with his hands and his head is a craftsman, he who makes things with his hands, his head, and his heart is an artist."
    www.garritysgunleather.com

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    Personaly i like the billboard " holosight " as a concept , but other than the shielded eotech which i cannot afford i dont trust them . With a tube type sight it can be used as a HUGE ghost ring untill you can flip up your buis . The more i shoot dot sights tho the more i am leaning twards trying a variable power illuminated recticle scope .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
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  9. #23
    Senior Member Array cagueits's Avatar
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    It seems that Trijicon is offering their own version of the JPoint:

    http://www.trijicon.com/user/parts/p...?categoryID=13

    Heres a writte up with pictures from Gunblast:

    http://www.gunblast.com/Trijicon_ACOG-Docter.htm

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    Personally i am not all that convinced that i need to spend at least half the cost of a rifle on optics , now i do agree with buis , and co-witness ( where possible ) of sights on any rifle that might be used at close range ( under 100 yards or so ). To me optics are an aid , not a means and while i might drop a couple of hundred on a good scope , it will go on a reach out there rifle , not on a bang around close up rifle . IMHO if your scope has crosshairs , or requires a battery its only a matter of time untill failure . I for one wont spend a lot to get the best , as long as it holds zero for its lifespan its fine to me , but then i understand irons and work with them all the time .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs View Post
    Personally i am not all that convinced that i need to spend at least half the cost of a rifle on optics , now i do agree with buis , and co-witness ( where possible ) of sights on any rifle that might be used at close range ( under 100 yards or so ). To me optics are an aid , not a means and while i might drop a couple of hundred on a good scope , it will go on a reach out there rifle , not on a bang around close up rifle . IMHO if your scope has crosshairs , or requires a battery its only a matter of time untill failure . I for one wont spend a lot to get the best , as long as it holds zero for its lifespan its fine to me , but then i understand irons and work with them all the time .
    You can get an EOTech for under $400 - which isn't cheap, but it's a lot cheaper then some of the alternatives being discussed. Mine served for a year in combat on one set of batteries, and they have apparently improved the battery life since then. No one in my company that used one had a failure of any kind. Also, the "window pane" makes just a good "giant ghost ring" as does the tube of an Aimpoint or similar (we did a fair amount of training out to 50m using a "dead" EOTech as a rear sight aperature), and a BUIS can be used quite easily with the EOTech still in place.

    I know, I'm starting to sound like a shill for EOTech (I'm not), but it is one piece of kit that I was 100% satisfied with, which is pretty rare for me!

    Of course, iron sights should always be quickly available, but the EOTech is faster and easier than irons (even for those of us with TONS of experience with AR irons) and is a viable option for a SHTF rifle.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by cagueits View Post
    Were you using A.R.M.S. throw levers or screws?

    Did the optics hold the BZO or you had to readjust when switching?

    Where did you carry your EOTech when not in use? (hard case, front handguards, ...?)
    I answered this in your PM, but I'll put it here too in case anyone else is interested:

    I had to buy my own optics, too - the M68 CCO (what the Army calls the Aimpoint) is a good optic, I just needed (well, wanted) something a bit different. The Leupold was a VX-1, and so wasn't too expensive.

    As for how I used them - the EOTech stayed on most of the time, mounted as far forward (towards the muzzle) as I could get it on the receiver rail mount. KAC says that the forearm quad-rails will hold a zero, but I trusted the receiver rail more. I used the screws, but would have preferred throw levers. It stayed very well zeroed through all the ons and offs - after I confirmed that fact a few times at the range I never worried about it in the field. (It should be noted that, since I had the recon/sniper platoon, I could set up a "range" pretty much whenever and wherever I wanted, so we could confirm zeroes and get good dope on changing weather conditions, elevations, et cetera Ė most units donít have that luxury, so try to confirm that it will hold its zero before you head over there).

    The Leupold was/is on a large one piece mount that held up very well. I also had a GG&G back up iron sight (rear sight only) on there with either optic Ė I didnít like the issued BUIS at all.

    Whatever optic I wasnít using was in my assault pack. The Leupold was inside itís neoprene cover, inside two heavy winter socks, wrapped up in a pair of DCU trousers. The EOTech was similarly wrapped up in cloth for protection. I didnít have a decent hard case for either, and the both survived OK (though I had a few scares where my pack took a pounding and I worries that the optics might have been damaged.) My front hand guards were pretty full (VFG, light, PAQ-4), so I couldnít put a ďspareĒ optic up there, but I donít think I would have done that it any case.

    In any case, good luck over there, and let me know if thereís anything else I can help with!
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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