HORNADY TAP Personal Defense Ammo

Hahaha - ''Black Felon'' LOL

Of course, Black Talon ammo has a ''claws'' in it to avoid anything seeming racial!! :biggrin:

I shot this evening on the blue PPC silhouette - used to be black but now, hey - we are just shootin at the UN LOL!

The FBI Targets as being called "Black Man Targets" but, that did NOT mean Blackman Targets....as in Afro-American Male Targets.

They were actually called Black "MAN" Targets....BECAUSE the target body color was black and the silhouette outline was that of a man.

Race had nothing to do with it. :rolleyes:
But, I remember that the NAACP did not quite see it that way & made a little stink about it.

I wont if the Hornady Tap will suffer the same fate as black talon ..Im sure the media will manage to twist it around and create a evil round out of these too.

You guys out there that have a hankering for the .45ACP TAP----try some of Hornadys #9096. I believe that is the same thing except no black case. It shoots great in my 5" and in my Beretta Storm. It will go completely through a 215 lb. hog out of my Storm. Recoil--?-- it seems a tad hot----but that's a GOOD THING.---------

Thanks RSSZ ~ Good addition.
Nice to hear some actual penetration results.

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Originally Posted by Bud White

I wont if the Hornady Tap will suffer the same fate as black talon ..Im sure the media will manage to twist it around and create a evil round out of these too.

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My point. The Black Talon coating on the bullet was for lubrication. The treatment of the case of the TAP ammo is for lubrication. The redesigned bullet is supposed to expand very reliably without overpenetration, with less noise, flash and recoil. If it performs as promised, then it will be a great addition. TAP is getting publicity just as Second Chance is announcing a major recall. I wouldn't be surprised if someone doesn't try to make hay with this sleek and dangerous looking ammo, especially since it's all about looks, not substance.

The 9096 out of my 16"bbl is going 1035fps(as per chrono). It did not hit a rib going in. I could stick three fingers in the exit hole on the far side. Given that,I should think that it will work fine on 2 legged pigs.-------

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Originally Posted by ExSoldier762

That's interesting, I have heard nothing but PRAISE for the XTP as a self defense round. I bought like 500 of them in 45ACP but then, even military hard ball will do well there. Well, I'm gonna keep 'em anyway. LOL

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I based that observation on testing done by AmmoLab.
Here is a quote from one of the founding members.

"Keep in mind guys that the XTP has a very solid reputation among hunters, reloaders, and persons seeking highly accurate products. It does meet all of the original Bureau standards and it was tweaked slightly to reduce penetration depths when the CQ line was introduced.

I am not recommending either way here but statistically the greater risk is due to under-penetration than over-penetration.
Yes- the Tactical and HST and Ranger and Bonded Golden Saber are better bullets overall but they are also more expensive and often more difficult to obtain and in many guns we have tested the XTP is the most accurate loading."



Another comment from another poster:
"Soooo...... it would seem that all the disadvantages and advantages of the XTP bullet then applies to these new handgun TAP rounds?

As I recall in .45ACP, the XTP bullet(s) aren't so great for self-defense (tend not to open up after penetrating multiple layers of denim)... but do tend to give good (i.e. deep) penetration suitable for hunting... I also seem to recall someone saying the XTP bullet is an older design, harkening back to the day when it was one of the first generation of hollowpoints designed to meet the (then) new FBI handgun ammunition protocol (i.e. 12-14" penetration). It seems to do OK in bare gelatin, but had issues when first penetrating simulated thick clothing."

I agree with you and have about 700 loaded rounds also. As the AmmoLab poster stated they are very accurate, at least they are in my 4" SA Champion. I also will continue to carry the 2 spare mags loaded with the 230gr ones anyway. I personally have not done any scientific testing on my own so can't say good or bad either way. I did error on one thing the CQ line they have now is an under penetration issue and not over penetration as stated earlier, I was not aware of this till I went and found one of the most recent posts on this bullet.

Here is a link to Ammo Lab, "Lab & Street Proven Loadings"
http://www.ammolab.com/page/page/1616971.htm

They state:
"It lists handgun loadings that have worked effectively for the LE Officers who depended upon them that have also tested very well in the laboratory."

Good Post Ghost. Very Worthwhile

Wonder why ammo lab never shows any in situ pictures?? Curious.

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Originally Posted by Tom357

Uh oh. It's black. Deadly dangerous black. With shiny bullets. Could that be an armor-piercing tip on that assault weapon round? It looks sinister. It looks like....evil assault ammunition. They say the coating is for lubrication, to make operation smoother. We've heard that before. And who's to say this is REALLY used for so-called "personal defense"? And what does "TAP" mean? People are being exposed to this ammunition at gun shows, as if it were just ammunition. Right now, this very instant, there are people out there with BOXES of this stuff - so dangerous that people fall over from just looking at it. And they are going to shoot it. And what happens then? It will be the wild west, all over again. Blood in the streets. Dogs lying down with goats. Oh, the humanity! People are dying every day this ammunition is being sold. How long before we come to our senses and ban it? For the children.

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These bullets are racist, just like the racist Winchester Black Talons. Racist, racist bullets and I am sure the Reverand Jesse Jackson and Sharpton will be all over this like crap on velcro.

Actually, the first thought I had was that most dummy rounds are black cases....make darn good and sure to keep them separated....

That's a good thought.
I have some .45 dummies that are black & some that are brass & oxidized very dark brown.

My local cop shop had a bunch of the Ranger SXT in 127gr +P+ in 9mm. I laid in a pretty good supply of it. Anytime I went in there I would buy a box of it if I didn't buy anything else. Some of the first boxes that I bought have the black coating on the bullets. The other boxes don't. The shop didn't have any the last time I was in there, and I don't know if they will get anymore. I guess I'll have to find something else in 9mm that is carried locally if they don't get anymore of it.

The TAP line of ammo has been for several years a LEO only line... and then again only in .223 and .308. I'm pleased to see that they opened it up to Citizens and more caliber options. Hornady is a favorite ammo maker of mine. And the use of the black coloring is only to appease the "tactical teddy" type guys... but the coating itself is something that is a great idea. I gave them this idea some time ago and they took it. Where does ammunition fail most often? In the bullet or in the firing of it? No... pretty much the bullets work every time they are put where they need to go... and with our modern primers and powders - they tend to fire with reliability. The failures generall come in 2 places. The feeding and the extracting. Making the cases so they feed and extract as easily as possible only makes sense. You don't want to lube your cases - but you do want them as smooth and slick as possible. I suggested to them a moly or NP3 type coating. Triton used NP3 coatings but found problems with bullet setback in calibers with stout recoil... but it worked fine otherwise. The other problem was that these coatings are just flat out spendy. A polished nickle coating on the casing is a brilliant move. It's cheaper, does the job, and doesn't allow for easy bullet setback. And making it black makes it all special... Wolf coats their cases with something... but then again you kinda have to when your cases are steel. Someone else is using nickle cases too, but they are not blackened. Blazer aluminum cases are coated as well. So while a good idea, it aint nothing new or special.

Blue cases indicate training ammunition. So blue isnt' a good idea. But RED? I'd like to see red case coatings. That would be just the thing for the IPSC crowd. To be honest, I'm suprised we haven't seen tactical OD green and Coyote Brown ammo.