Ear Protection - Page 3

Ear Protection

This is a discussion on Ear Protection within the Related Gear & Equipment forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Howard Leight. Thunder 29 or Thunder 31. For non-electronic you can't DO any better....

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Thread: Ear Protection

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Howard Leight. Thunder 29 or Thunder 31. For non-electronic you can't DO any better.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.


  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_1 View Post
    One thing he always stresses is that when shooting to keep the mastoid bone covered. Which is what a good set of muffs do. The sound from the gun is picked up as vibration by the mastoid and is transmitted to your ear canal. You can see the same thing happen with a good ear exam when the doctor strikes a tunning fork and places it on the mastoid bone. The sound is transfered to the inner ear.
    Mike
    The issue is not whether the sound is transmitted via bone conduction. The real issue is whether that the sound is damaging to the inner ear. The sound will be transmitted to the ear at any point on the skull. For example, strike a tuning fork and place it in the middle of your forehead; you will hear the tone in both ears. The loud noise produced by gunfire will demonstrate bone conduction regardless of whether you dampen the mastoid with a muff. Do not get me wrong, I am a strong advocate of hearing protection. I would recommend wearing both muffs and in-ear protection anytime that the circumstances allow. The real value in double protection is not through any effect on bone conduction, but on the additional reduction of sound pressure into the ear canal and to the tympanic membrane. I guess it's a nice way to motivate people to wear double protection, but it's based on a myth.

    There is no scientific evidence that bone conduction of noise alone (SPL around 140dB) produces any permanent hearing threshold shift. If you know of such evidence, I would very much appreciate learning of the source.

  3. #33
    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
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    Probably a good idea to keep the mouth closed while shooting is occurring in the vicinity, too. If the Eustachian tube is clear, there's a direct air channel from the outside world through the mouth to the inner side of the tympanum. (Of course there's one through the nose too, but the mouth channel is shorter and less convoluted.)

    I noticed ringing in my ears after one session while wearing good ear muffs, kept my mouth closed after that with no recurrence.

  4. #34
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    Surefire Sonic Defenders....I used them at Blackwater during our 3gun course..they performed very well. In fact 3 of the instructors asked me about them. http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/...4306/sesent/00

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_1 View Post
    As long as they cover the mastoid bone.
    Mike
    Giggle...Mike said "mastoid bone".

    Ok, sometimes I'm still 12 years old. Sorry!

    But seriously, as an audio (recording) engineer, I'm not really sold on the electronic earmuff idea, yet. I'm assuming they use something we in the recording industry call a "noise gate". The gate is programmed so that when audio reaches a certain point, or threshold, it clamps down on that audio and doesn't let it in. Audio is heard normally before the threshold is reached. The problem I have, theoretically, with electronic earmuffs is that the gate allows a teeny-tiny bit of the initial noise to get through before it clamps down on the noise as a whole. That initial noise is called a transient. Keep in mind, that threshold has to be reached and even surpassed for the gate to react. There is no such thing as a gate that will stop a signal before it reaches a set threshold. That would probably require, well, time travel! And it's my understanding that a millisecond (I'm not sure of the exact amount) of gunshot noise is just as damaging, although probably not noticeably so, as an unprotected blast. Let me know if my "electronic earmuff doubts" are off track. It's a slow day at work and my mind is wandering.
    And I'm not saying that they don't work, don't get me wrong. Also, I've never used a pair, so there's my other disclaimer.
    Just my $2.02 worth!
    Last edited by taggart; November 28th, 2007 at 04:34 PM. Reason: Added a bit of clarification and disclaimer.
    Taggart Snyder
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by taggart View Post
    And it's my understanding that a millisecond (I'm not sure of the exact amount) of gunshot noise is just as damaging, although probably not noticeably so, as an unprotected blast.
    You've raised a good point. Impact noise, or loud noise of very short duration. Very little good science on this issue. All of the noise standards (OSHA) used in the US are based upon continuous noise, or at least of minutes to hours duration. The American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists (ACGIH) has some recommendations for short duration noise in their book of recommended workplace limits (the TLV/BLV book). NIOSH (National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health) also has some material on short duration noise. Research on this area is harder and harder due to budget cuts. Noise induced hearing loss just doesn't have the sex (no pun intended) appeal of AIDs to the budget makers.

  7. #37
    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    We keep several sets of muffs in our range bucket. Everyone in the family swears by them, except for one oddball that prefers plugs. I've used both, both seem to do the job, but the plugs seem like more trouble to me.

    If we ever did any indoor shooting, I would probable use both.
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

  8. #38
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    Yes I use 2 sets of hearing protection
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuban11182 View Post
    Surefire Sonic Defenders....I used them at Blackwater during our 3gun course..they performed very well. In fact 3 of the instructors asked me about them. http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/...4306/sesent/00
    Interesting.

    From your own perspective how do they work I meaning the sense of reducing real noise. Also were you training inside or out?

    I for year have been doubling up with inner ear plugs and a set of Peltor model 6 electronic muffs which alone are 19NRR.
    I've been checking prices though and am this close to buying myself a pair of Peltor Tactical Pro at 26NRR for Christmas; http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...374&t=11082005

    They are spendy but then I only have one set of ears and I'mnot getting any younger.

    - Janq
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  10. #40
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    I have the Caldwell ES85, which are NNR27, work good, and are only $14.99 right now at midway.... They work great, but dont have electronic noise canceling.. just electronic cutout... they are stereo tho.
    "I'd rather be judged in a box by a jury than carred in a box by my friends!"

  11. #41
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    Ear muffs and ear plugs for me. My five year old daughter does the same when I take her to the range. Shooting glasses too.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Interesting.

    From your own perspective how do they work I meaning the sense of reducing real noise. Also were you training inside or out?

    I for year have been doubling up with inner ear plugs and a set of Peltor model 6 electronic muffs which alone are 19NRR.
    I've been checking prices though and am this close to buying myself a pair of Peltor Tactical Pro at 26NRR for Christmas; http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...374&t=11082005

    They are spendy but then I only have one set of ears and I'mnot getting any younger.

    - Janq
    They work pretty well. We were outside shooting the Beretta 9mm, the remington 870, and the m4. To me they sound just as well as the peltor full cover earmuffs, but its nice when they are going over the course of fire and you dont have to remove them because you can hear the instructor speak.

  13. #43
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    Went to the range, used both the inside the ear yellow sponge, and the over the ear protection. Mine were the over the ear - very cheap leaf blower variety. Worked very well, was surprised that the actual 'pressure wave' on the body from the other reports was more noticeable than the sound.

    To hijack my own thread, one person (not the range master) was concerned when I fired about 1 shot per second, all were within an 8" target spread at 5 yards, I really did not think that was considered 'rapid fire'...

  14. #44
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    Well, after reading all these great posts... and since I have both muffs and in the ear soft plugs I think I'll be using both ALL THE TIME from here on out instead of just when I feel it's needed!

    This was a very good thread! Thanks to whoever started it!
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  15. #45
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    My wife and I wear electronic muffs...they were good ones, around $130 per set...one can spend more or less...these are pretty good...forget the name at the moment and I don't feel like opening the safe.
    $130 for a set of muffs for the ears is much cheaper than a hearing aid and the batteries...

    I like them for safety on the line...your ears are protected, and you can hear commands/warnings very well.
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