I, in my arrogance, have always been of the opinion that any new or refurbished semiautomatic pistol should come with three quality magazines. Stay with me on this.
The reason why is that of course you need at least one to make the pistol function. You should of course have a second one because often the easiest way to clear a malfunction is to replace the magazine, and just for the sake of redundancy.
I personally do not carry a third magazine because my pockets/belt are already full of other crap, including my other gun, which I will reach for long before I grab another magazine in all hope. Of course I hope to never require the services of either gun but I'm getting off track here.
But even then I think you should have a third magazine even if all it does is sit in an ammo can just in case something goes wrong with one of the others, you lose one in the field, etc.
I only own two such pistols, but for the XD40 I have 6 factory magazines and for the P89 I have 5 magazines and want to get 1 more. Even for my revolvers I have at least 2 speedloaders or speed strips for each one. With a revolver, two speed loaders is effectively the same thing as having 3 magazines provided you keep your cylinder loaded.
Personally I'm slowly adding to my stock of spare magazines and speedloaders all the time. For me it's not about having some kind of tactical reload option in the middle of a battle in the mall against the enemy ninja clan, it's about redundancy. In the case of many handguns, it simply won't function, or at least not very well, without a magazine. Or something crazy might happen to you, and do you want to sit there with anything less than a fully loaded firearm in its aftermath? I sure don't.
I've personally called the magazine the bane of the self loading pistol and I stand by it. It's an easy to overlook piece of equipment, and even if you are the best gunfighter on this earth and are firing the finest SIG, 1911, or Glock in the world, a minute defect in your magazine can ruin your day. I also feel that in most quality pistols, it's the part most likely to fail on you namely because it's the only part expressly designed to be separated from the rest of the gun with great ease. Not to mention all the headaches a bad magazine can cause. An $1800 pistol with a slightly ill fitting magazine can exhibit all sorts of problems that it shouldn't have.
I will add one more consideration to this as well: Use good quality magazines that make the most of your firearm. Sometimes you may be compelled to use aftermarket magazines for various reasons. Do your homework and make sure to test all magazines for function.
Speedloaders and speed strips are a little safer bet. There's not a whole lot of people making them compared to how many people might make magazines for your gun. I have never personally encountered such a product that was somehow defective or flawed.
So how many magazines/speedloaders are probably enough? As always it depends on you. For me personally it's six because most trainers require you to come to class with 6 magazines or speedloaders for your gun, but I feel I could get by on 3 magazines for a semiautomatic or 2 speedloaders/speedstrips for a revolver otherwise.
I added several more for my SIG - managed to get three ex LE 15's and from another forum, a member sold me 2 20's he had which were unused - these are all factory. I did get some crappy eagle mags for use in IDPA - well, they are about Ok but certainly not good enough for carry - you get whatcha pay for!
The std SIG mag's that came with gun are a pain - only 10 rounders for starters but with two of them, may as well call 'em nine rounders. I defy about anyone to get a 10th in!
I managed to get a whole load of Argentinian mags for my BHP - they all work great. So - I think I have 10 for that and the SIG, including the smaller mags, totals 8.
For sure there needs to be some plan for redundency - Murphy factors even! For carry I rarely carry more than one spare 15 - I also have a large crap burden - just too much stuff. Only add a third mag if going somewhere very much higher and obvious risk, if unavoidable.
I have a boatload of speedloaders but having found Comp 1 and Comp 2 loaders to be best - have all but retired all my HKS..... tho they do work, after a fashion. two Comp's tho for carry are fine.
I would agree, a new gun should ship with more than 2 mags - three should be minimum.
The first thing I do when I get a new handgun is make sure I have 6 magazines for it. I always buy more as I find good deals at gunshows or the internet... 6 is just a min. My reasoning is that I'll need three good ones for carry and three that I can beat up and drop during IDPA matches.
I, in my arrogance, have always been of the opinion that any new or refurbished semiautomatic pistol should come with three quality magazines. Stay with me on this.
Euc, I don't think you are arrogant on this...You are absolutly right. The reason they give you two is just a marketing thing. It's simple micro economics...They want you to buy more magazines. I know a gun shop in State College PA that only sells one magazine with each new pistol. The guy just takes the other mag from each pistol and sells them seperatly. I was helping a young college friend buy his first pistol. We were looking at Glocks and Sigs. The dealer told me Glocks and Sigs are only shipping with one magazine. What an a$$! Needless to say we never shopped there again.
Part of my pistol break in procedure is to break in my mags also. I want to be sure that they function and fit properly. At the range,early in the Am,when there are no other shooters around,I put all kinds of different pressures on a inserted mag. I hold down on it and fire,push laterly on it and fire,and push hard upwards on it and fire. I basically rock it back and forth in the mag well and check for feeding problems. I have 6 mags for my CCW. All are OEM (stamped). I have marked on my calender the dates to change them out. Every 2 weeks I download 2 of them and upload 2 more. Is that really necessary?? For me it is! When at the range I have all my mags for the weapon that I am firing and I rotate through them. I work over my mags (new ones) even before I shoot them. They are dissasembled,all parts cleaned and lightly lubed thoroughly,the feed lips are highly polished,all burrs/rough spots removed,checked for dents and general imperfections, and then reassembled and used to see if the function is up to MY standards. I use only (IMHO) high quality mags. I have stated in other posts that I use only Kimber mags in my CCW. I have 950 rds. through the 6 mags and not one problem that I can associate to the mags. Just me? Just luck? I don't know,but my mags WORK. I use CMC mags for my other 1911's (Colt's). For my other weapons I have "plenty" of mags. Hey,----can you ever have too many mags ???---------
For my Ruger P95/PC9 combo, I have six 15-round factory mags. I have several 10-round factory mags, and I have a few aftermarkets that seem to function fine.
For my Glock 27, I have the two factory mags that came with it as well as three G23 13-round mags.
For my S&W 4006, I have five 11-round mags for it.
For my 1911, I have the two factory 7-round mags (not reliable) and three Chip McCormick power mags (2-10s/1-8). I'll add a few either Tripp or Wilson Combat mags for the 1911 at some point.
I have three factory mags for the 4013.
I say that three true capacity mags for a carry gun is a bare minimum. Five is probably the true minimum you should have. The 1911 and 4013 have not gone into the carry stable as of yet. I always look to add more Ruger mags when cash permits as I have the pistol/carbine combo that use the same mags. I have a belt set up to hold four mags and a two-mag cuff case on the carbine. In an emergency situation I can slap on the belt and grab the carbine and I have eight 15-round mags at the ready that will work in both the pistol and carbine.
I think the magic number here seems to be six. I feel like I have to have a minimum of five spare mags plus one in the gun. Especially for single stackers. Hi-caps seem to be an investment in case an AWB ever goes into effect again. I watched my Glock M21 13rd mags go from about $20 each to over $100 each almost overnight. We used to joke at our IDPA matches about competitors leaving hundred dollar bills lying about after reaching slidelock and dropping them. I could get by with three hi-caps, but would prefer to have six or more, each.
I average about 10 per pistol that I use with regularity. I have a few that have no spares, but they're there for collection purposes or rare use range toy, so it's not that big of a deal.
For my Sig 226s, I have a box. I think I have about 25 hi-caps now.
I have a minimum of 3 mags for each pistol and for some I have as many as 8.
Since I have over a dozen pistols, that means a lot of mags. I'm not even gonna go into what I've got for my 3 AR's,AK's and G3 but I am a firm believer that it is better to have too many rather than not enough.
Suffice it to say that they take up alot of room in my two safes... :biggrin:
I have at least 10 top quality mags for all my "carry/use" pistols.
My Walther p38 NONE since I would rather have had the $50.00 than ever shoot that totally useless P.O.S. ever again...so I sold it on Ebay. :biggrin:
19 (plus some spare parts) for my S&W model 41...My favorite plinker :smile: MANY for my evil black rifle including two factory 50 rounders. :biggrin:
Only 4 factory mags for my bug PPK/S
5 for my Glock
I carry 3-4 spares while I'm out and about, depending on the Mag capacity.. If it's one of my full autos, I'd carry AT LEAST 10 spare mags each, just in case the SHTF... I do have 2 boxes of 50 Rnds each for a backup in my vehicle...I do carry 2 spares for my Bug... or 3 speedloaders or 4 speed strips for the wheelie gun
If it's at home.........I have at least 50 M16 mags...40 AK mags......40 HKMP5 mags.... Lots and lots of other assorted mags for the various MGs I have..
I can't even begin to think of what I have for the Pistols I have and other speed loading devices :biggrin:
You folks know better than I, so what am I missing? Why do you need so many magazines? I have a 1911 with two mags. I use one of them. Actually I do use two - one of them for plinking and the other stays loaded with gold dots. But that's just for convenience so I don't have to unload the gold dots every time I go plinking.
I don't have my CCW yet, and when I do... well, okay, so maybe you need an extra mag there. But 6? 10?
I figure if my magazine ever breaks (BTW, my Dad has a Colt Series 70 and STILL has the original mags and still shoots...) I'll just go buy a new one.
So I know I'm missing a critical point? Unless you shoot IDPA or another competition where multiple magazines are required and often dropped where they could be damaged.
Well Joe for me I personally could get by on 3 good ones.
Now a lot of people say to me "That's not enough because you'll reload them so many times..."
And then I ask them what is the difference to your thumb between loading 6 magazines once and 3 magazines twice.
For me having 6 is about redundancy as I believe very much in Murphy's law.
Also, if you are lucky enough to get to a point you can consider more formal training, you'll need the spares. You're right though that I could actually get by on less if they were quality magazines.
But I'd still get at least 3 total, and try to add one for every year I owned the gun after that.
The answer is Speed. Euc, the odds that any of us will actually have to draw (those of us not LEO's) and engage a hostile BG are remote to say the least. If it does happen (God forbid) the odds that we'll need more than a few rounds or a single mag at most are just as remote. But if you do need more than one mag, you're likely going to need a lot of them. That's why during our vacation last week I had 72 rds of .40 ready to launch from my Glock M27 before I even had to think of asking my wife to start reloading from the two boxes of JHP at the bottom of my little emergency bag. I had a mag in the gun and two hi-cap M22 mags with 15 rds each ON me. The other loaded mags and the spare ammo were in a small range bag behind my seat. Ready to grab if we had to bail from the vehicle and seek better cover.
Since I was traveling through some very rural areas of Louisiana and Texas, I figured these preps were prudent to say the least. Crime is getting just as bad if not worse in the rural areas as it is in the cities. Did you know that in some parts of Texas there is simply NO cell phone coverage?
Imagine breaking down or having a flat in such an area and somebody not so nice happens along to offer their "help?" Our out of state tags and my silvery beard might have tagged us as "prey" before they found out the old saying might be true about never teasing old dogs because they might have one good BITE left!
Also remember that 9 times out of 10 when you experience an FTF or FTE it's the faulty mag thats the problem. So you run through one mag and it's fine, but you've got a weak spring or bent mag lips on your single back up and you start getting jams and you still need the gun to be functioning since the threat still exists and is credible. And now they know you have problems with your piece.....
ExSoldier there is a problem with your analysis. More magazines does not mean more speed. It depends on the situation.
If I am given 500 cartridges, a pistol, and 6 magazines, it doesn't matter how many magazines I actually have as I must stuff each round into the magazine before being able to fire it.
As a matter of fact the capacity of the firearm is meaningless as well.
Give me a combat sized revolver and 500 cartridges. If the goal is to simply fire all 500 catridges, I can accomplish this faster than I can with any semiautomatic.
ExSoldier there is a problem with your analysis. More magazines does not mean more speed. It depends on the situation.
If I am given 500 cartridges, a pistol, and 6 magazines, it doesn't matter how many magazines I actually have as I must stuff each round into the magazine before being able to fire it.
As a matter of fact the capacity of the firearm is meaningless as well.
Give me a combat sized revolver and 500 cartridges. If the goal is to simply fire all 500 catridges, I can accomplish this faster than I can with any semiautomatic.
Euc, give me six previously loaded magazines and you with your six shooter wheel gun and I flat guarantee I whomp you with time on target. Even if I'm on the move and shooting as I move so I hafta drop a few mags, I can STILL reload and resume the fight faster than a wheel gunner whose skill level to me is comesurate with my own.
I have to agree. If I am going some place where I even think I have the remote possibility of needing that many rounds, I'll have the AK in the trunk. If you live long enough, you should be able to fight your way back to your vehicle with one reload to get a real weapon suitable for fighting off whatever small army is attacking you.
Chances you'll be in a confrontation requiring you to draw your weapon? Slim. Chances that you'll need to fire your weapon? Even lower. Chances you'll need more than one reload? Remote. Chances you'll survive if you ever need more than one reload? Too remote to even consider. At least for me. I understand those with more training may take a different route and I'm not criticizing those who do - but for me it just isn't realistic.
Euc, give me six previously loaded magazines and you with your six shooter wheel gun and I flat guarantee I whomp you with time on target. Even if I'm on the move and shooting as I move so I hafta drop a few mags, I can STILL reload and resume the fight faster than a wheel gunner whose skill level to me is comesurate with my own.
Ah but there's the problem with your previous analysis.
You're assuming that the magazines are loaded. That's a situational factor some people may not be able to control.
For instance if you're traveling through gun unfriendly states, if I understand federal law correctly, you can only transport it so long as it's not loaded and none of its magazines are loaded. Local laws, circumstances, or other regulations may require you to keep the firearm and its magazines unloaded.
And even then, yes for the 100 give or take round of ammunition you already have loaded you're going to be moving very fast, but if the situation calls for firing 5 or 6 times that amount suddenly your advantage is debatable. The higher the round count goes, the less clear it is that having multiple magazines is really all that helpful.
Now I realize that's a silly thing to even consider because it's never happened in the real world and probably never will, but if we're going to talk about a fantastic situation that requires one to fire 6 magazines' worth of ammunition from a handgun all at once we might as well consider the situation to its extreme. :wink:
As we say in math your statement is true, but within limits.
In what was presented, no, there was no realistic problem.
Why did wheelguns lose out to autos? Magazine capacity and reload time for the average shooter. Sure, there are guys who can reload a revolver in unholy spans, but for most, it's a lot more involved and more can go wrong. More can go wrong in most cases shooting an automatic, but the problems on the revolver end start and almost exclusively end during the reload cycle - speedloader that doesn't release, rounds that don't eject from the cylinder, a cylinder that doesn't want to release, etc.
You're assuming that the magazines are loaded. That's a situational factor some people may not be able to control.
For most of us, it's a fact of life that the magazines are going to be loaded.
For instance if you're traveling through gun unfriendly states, if I understand federal law correctly, you can only transport it so long as it's not loaded and none of its magazines are loaded. Local laws, circumstances, or other regulations may require you to keep the firearm and its magazines unloaded.
There are no such magazine restrictions in relevant US code (Title 18 Part I Chap. 44 Sec. 926A) - ammunition must be not readily accessible from passenger compartment and the firearm itself unloaded.
And even then, yes for the 100 give or take round of ammunition you already have loaded you're going to be moving very fast, but if the situation calls for firing 5 or 6 times that amount suddenly your advantage is debatable. The higher the round count goes, the less clear it is that having multiple magazines is really all that helpful.
...
As we say in math your statement is true, but within limits.
Within limits, you're not going to have two boxes of ammo in your coat pocket. You might have 1 mag in the gun, and two in each pocket. That's not inconceivable, and with Glock or Sig +2 mags, it's doable. You're not likely to have 16ish speedloaders - they take up too much room. Ditto speed strips.
The magazine clearly wins out.
If you're talking about 100 round shootouts, you're going to be providing cover fire most likely - and in that, the auto wins out hands down. I can drop the entire capacity of the average wheelgun to purchase cover and movement and still have 1.5x its load still in the weapon.
If you're talking 500-600 round shootouts, well, I hope your car provides a lot of cover or you brought an ammo cart. It's going to get a little silly lugging around half a case of ammo and ripping into cardboard cases under fire.
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