Bright but small?

This is a discussion on Bright but small? within the Related Gear & Equipment forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm looking for a flashlight which is suppose to be fairly small (3-4 inch), and that will have a high beam of about 170-200 lumen: ...

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Thread: Bright but small?

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    Member Array Sig sauer's Avatar
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    Bright but small?

    I'm looking for a flashlight which is suppose to be fairly small (3-4 inch), and that will have a high beam of about 170-200 lumen: I aslo would like it to have different light output modes.

    I work as a police officer in plain clothes. I want the flashlight to be small to be able to conceal it. I want it to have a high beam that will light up a car for example at a distance. But I also want it to have different lightmodes that gives me a lower beam to use when i don't need the high output but rather have a longer burntime.

    I have been looking at the Fenix P2D Q5.
    Would this be a good buy for my purpose or do you have better suggestions?

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    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    Do you have a budget? If you want the absolute top quality, best of the best multi-stage light, you would do well to buy a custom Milky ML1. This is a Surefire L1 modified by Scott Clawson, aka Milkyspit from CandlePowerForums. He charges anywhere from $85 and up to modify your Surefire L1. He replaces basically all the components in the head (LED, reflector instead of an optic, new lens) and modifies the switch assembly/driver to get your low and high levels where you want them.

    There is more information in these threads than you will ever care to know!

    Milky L1 Information Thread Part 2 - CandlePowerForums
    Milkyspit ML-1 vs. Surefire L-1 (old) & L-1 (new) - CandlePowerForums

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    I used my Surefire G3 and G2 with great success in a plain clothes role... and they are very reasonable on price as well.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Senior Member Array MilitaryPower's Avatar
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    The P1D uses a CR123A but has about 200 lumens and several lower modes as well. It would be a whole lot shorter than the L2D but should be a little thicker. I'm not quite sure about the throw however. The NiteCore series looks pretty nice as well.

    I have the L2D CE (not as powerfull as the Q5) and love it, but with less than 140 lumens I leave the "tactical" work to my T1 or SF Malkoff 6P. Depending on how/if you can conceal it, it would be an excellent choice. At almost 6 inches, it could be a bit uncomfortable in your pocket, but it runs on AA's (which are cheap, but it is better to use rechargables or even better, lithiums) so it is thin. I wear mine on my belt between my extra mag and cell phone.
    Gun control can be blamed in part for allowing 9/11 to happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chooie View Post
    Do you have a budget? If you want the absolute top quality, best of the best multi-stage light, you would do well to buy a custom Milky ML1. This is a Surefire L1 modified by Scott Clawson, aka Milkyspit from CandlePowerForums. He charges anywhere from $85 and up to modify your Surefire L1. He replaces basically all the components in the head (LED, reflector instead of an optic, new lens) and modifies the switch assembly/driver to get your low and high levels where you want them.

    There is more information in these threads than you will ever care to know!

    Milky L1 Information Thread Part 2 - CandlePowerForums
    Milkyspit ML-1 vs. Surefire L-1 (old) & L-1 (new) - CandlePowerForums
    I don't have a budget calculated, but more than $180 would be to much. I lloked at the thread and the conversion looked great. However it sais that the high beam is only 60 lumen with the conversion. And that will be to low unfortunatly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MilitaryPower View Post
    The P1D uses a CR123A but has about 200 lumens and several lower modes as well. It would be a whole lot shorter than the L2D but should be a little thicker. I'm not quite sure about the throw however. The NiteCore series looks pretty nice as well.

    I have the L2D CE (not as powerfull as the Q5) and love it, but with less than 140 lumens I leave the "tactical" work to my T1 or SF Malkoff 6P. Depending on how/if you can conceal it, it would be an excellent choice. At almost 6 inches, it could be a bit uncomfortable in your pocket, but it runs on AA's (which are cheap, but it is better to use rechargables or even better, lithiums) so it is thin. I wear mine on my belt between my extra mag and cell phone.
    The L2D is to big to use. Then the P2D would be better sized. I haven't been able to try one though. So I don't know how far it throws and how wide the beam is.
    I would prefer is it used CR123 batteries, because we get them for free at work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    I used my Surefire G3 and G2 with great success in a plain clothes role... and they are very reasonable on price as well.
    The Fenix P2D seems to have a brighter high beam. 120 lumen to Fenix 180 lumen.

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    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig sauer View Post
    I don't have a budget calculated, but more than $180 would be to much. I lloked at the thread and the conversion looked great. However it sais that the high beam is only 60 lumen with the conversion. And that will be to low unfortunatly.
    I totally understand; most folks would cringe at the thought of buying a $125 flashlight only to pay someone to pull it apart and modify it. FYI, I've been conversing with Milky about having one of these made, and the current high is closer to 200 lumens. I notice you started a thread over on CPF - they'll certainly be able to overwhelm you with options. Just remember that you can't compare lumen ratings between manufacturers without noting if they are advertised as emitter lumens or torch (aka out the front) lumens. Surefire, NiteCore, and others use torch lumens, while Fenix (last I knew) used emitter lumens. Emitter lumen ratings do not account for the loss of light inside the flashlight itself. Kind of like crank HP vs wheel HP, There is parasitic loss within the system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chooie View Post
    I totally understand; most folks would cringe at the thought of buying a $125 flashlight only to pay someone to pull it apart and modify it. FYI, I've been conversing with Milky about having one of these made, and the current high is closer to 200 lumens. I notice you started a thread over on CPF - they'll certainly be able to overwhelm you with options. Just remember that you can't compare lumen ratings between manufacturers without noting if they are advertised as emitter lumens or torch (aka out the front) lumens. Surefire, NiteCore, and others use torch lumens, while Fenix (last I knew) used emitter lumens. Emitter lumen ratings do not account for the loss of light inside the flashlight itself. Kind of like crank HP vs wheel HP, There is parasitic loss within the system.
    200 lumens sounds interesting. What kind of light is that?

    I read the thread about his conversion and it really looks great. I would be very interested in his conversion if it could be done to a flashlight with a higher output beam.

    Thank you for the information about the emitter and torch lumen. I had no idea. I'm mostly looking at the lumen output. Unfortunatly I don't have access to these flashlights. I live in Sweden and I haven't seen Fenix here. I'm looking to order a flashlight from the States beacuse of better range of product.
    Have you ever compared the Fenix and the Surefire? Do you know if Fenix 180 lumen is brighter than for example surefire 80 lumen?

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    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig sauer View Post
    200 lumens sounds interesting. What kind of light is that?

    I read the thread about his conversion and it really looks great. I would be very interested in his conversion if it could be done to a flashlight with a higher output beam.

    Thank you for the information about the emitter and torch lumen. I had no idea. I'm mostly looking at the lumen output. Unfortunatly I don't have access to these flashlights. I live in Sweden and I haven't seen Fenix here. I'm looking to order a flashlight from the States beacuse of better range of product.
    Have you ever compared the Fenix and the Surefire? Do you know if Fenix 180 lumen is brighter than for example surefire 80 lumen?
    I have a Surefire E2DL, which is a 120 lumen light with an optic. I had a Fenix P3D-CE, which was advertised as a 160 lumen light. In direct comparison, the Surefire had better throw and a brighter center hotspot than the Fenix. I would say that the overall amount of light output of the two is similar. I also have a new NiteCore EX10 that claims up to 130 torch lumens. I have no way of accurately measuring the output, but it seems to be just about the same as the other two lights I mentioned. Of the three, the Surefire with the optic has the best range, but the worst area (spill) lighting - but still usable.

    Of these, the NiteCore EX10 is the smallest - barely 2oz and less than 3" long - but it's not suited for use in a Surefire/Rogers technique with a handgun. The E2DL is a little longer than you asked about (roughly 5.5") but is very easy to carry. Both of these have a low around 3-5 lumens, which is enough to navigate a dark room with night adjusted eyes.

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    Chooie what light where you talking about to convert with the help of Milky at 200 lumen?

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    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    His "Creemator" mods can go up to 303 lumens at the moment, and his ML1 Surefire L1 mod can go as high as 160-180 lumens... on one cell. Here is a quote from an email he sent me.

    Yes, I would be able to replace the stock TIR optic with a reflector... and would replace the stock Luxeon with a Seoul SSC emitter as that's the one which fits nicely into that particular head. I could use a USVOH binned emitter for a creamy white tint... ought to be able to reach 100 lumens even with the stock L1 circuitry, so that's not such a big deal... or with upgraded circuitry (a $30 option) we could bring output up in the 160-180 lumen range, though high beam runtime would decrease from the stock 90-120 minutes down to about 60 minutes.
    If you want to contact him directly, his email address is listed in the thread below.

    Milkyspit Mods, Thoughts, Eye Candy [LOTS OF PHOTOS] Part 3 - CandlePowerForums

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    Thanks, sounds interesting. Might be expensive though.

    What I really need is some youtube clip comparing Fenix P2D, Surefire L1 and other similiar lights. Unfortunatly most videos show closeup shots of the beam, which is pretty useless. Need to know how they look at a distance.

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    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    I can take some photos tonight of the beams outdoors, using my Surefire E2DL and NiteCore EX10. I don't have my Fenix P3D anymore, as I gave it to a good friend of mine... plus JD still has my Surefire L1.

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    Member Array Sig sauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chooie View Post
    I can take some photos tonight of the beams outdoors, using my Surefire E2DL and NiteCore EX10. I don't have my Fenix P3D anymore, as I gave it to a good friend of mine... plus JD still has my Surefire L1.
    Thanks, I would really appreciate it!! You wouldn't happen to have a Jet Pro-III I.B.S also?

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